This is a statement I hear very often in China, but I do not quite understand it. I do not mean that I do not understand "how" someone can love China, because there are a lot of things to love. However, there are also some things that are not so great. Like any other country, there is good and bad here. My confusion is not so much about the statement "I love China" but more about the answer when I ask why. Typically, someone will say this, and I, being the curious type, will ask "what do you you love about China?" In almost every situation, the person cannot answer my question. They might say that they love their family, but what does that have to do with China? If they all lived in Russia, would they hate each other? Of course not. Again, I will ask "WHY do you love China? What is it specifically about this country that you love?" Again, no real answer. So, if you are someone who says "I love my country" I would be interested to read your answer to the question of "why?".

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 01:49AM by Olive.

hahaha,great post,most chinese think that love their nation is an obligation,many of them have no idea what do they love about China,they think living in China is a proper reason to love China,which is just weird.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 01:50AM by Olive.

Kurt,
It does seem a bit strange to me as well that a person would love their country for no reason other than just living in it. In my experience, once I have lived in a country (including my own), I find a lot of reasons NOT to love it...haha. You made some points (obligation, no idea what they love) that seem to be true in some cases, but there MUST be some Chinese who can give a "real" answer to the question of "why" they love China.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 01:57AM by Olive.

Just to clarify, I would ask this question of anyone, in any country. The statement "I love my country" has always seemed a bit strange to me. I am just asking it concerning China here because not only I am in China right now, but also this is a China-specific website, so hoping I can get some interesting answers here.

Asked my gf, she said "Because I live here", "Because my family is here" and "because it's my home country".

That's the answers I always get... It's just Patriotic silliness.Lots of countries have this. Propaganda works well.

I have noticed those common answers too, that is why normally when I pose the question, I include the "other than the fact that you were born here and your family lives here" clause, to try to eliminate that as a de facto answer. What I am looking for is something concrete, something tangible. I think in some cultures, this question is easily understood as a query concerning society, cuisine, traditions, natural features, variety and quality of life, "things to do", government policies, the quality of the population, etc....however in China it seems that most people either do not really understand what I am asking, or they do not have an answer. Maybe if someone understands this question, they could model an appropriate answer?

It's a cultural thing that westerners do not understand. A lot of westerners are not proud of their own country and seek some form of escape. Look at places like Tibet, Bali, and even China now, that is filled with westerners trying to escape their countries. So by that same token, I would not expect westerners to understand Chinese mindsets.

The Chinese, throughout history, have a very strong bond with their "motherland". For eg it is not unusual for overseas Chinese to request that upon death, their ashes be brought back to the motherland. When a Chinese talk about returning to China, he/she will simple say "hui guo", which means return to the motherland. It is not even necessary to say "which" country because it's so obvious.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 10:16PM by Olive.

So, what you are saying is that there really isn't any specific or material reason many Chinese say they love their country - it is more of a spiritual or psychological "bond"? You are correct, it is a very different concept, at least to me.

I cannot speak for all westerners, but I really don't understand the concept of loving something unless there is a reason to love it, if you get my meaning. Do you know if this is common in other Asian countries as well? Why do people who love their country enough to want their ashes scattered there leave in the first place? Is the love simply a claim or proclamation, absent of true passion? It seems to me that if I truly loved a country, especially if it was where I had citizenship, I would not leave. The point about being proud (or not) of a home country...I will freely admit to several disappointing (to me) points about my country, but at the same time, I cannot believe that a person in ANY country, including China, cannot also find things they are not proud of as well. Maybe that is the root of my question, and my confusion when hearing the answers.

Is it so hard to say what you like and what you do not like about your country? Sorry for the rambling, I just have a lot of thoughts and questions floating around my head.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 12:48AM by Olive.

Quote:
Xietingfeng: So, what you are saying is that there really isn't any specific or material reason many Chinese say they love their country?

You have overestimated chinese culture and their mentality,they are not mysterious deep-thinkers as chinese propaganda describing,this is just retarded blinded patriotism.Your confusion is a waste of energy.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 12:49AM by Olive.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a cultural thing that westerners do not
> understand.

haha yeah, it's so mysterious! I'm sure it has nothing to do with growing up surrounded by huge amounts of propaganda saying you MUST love your country. Hell one Olympic Athelete thanked their parents before China and a Chinese government memeber called them badly raised. It's propaganda, not hard to understand.

> lot of westerners are not proud of
> their own country and seek some form of escape.

What utter bullshit. Most Westerners love their country for it's good points. If you ask me why I love Canada I can give you many reasons because Canada has been VERY good to me.

> Look at places like Tibet, Bali, and even China
> now, that is filled with westerners trying to
> escape their countries. So by that same token, I
> would not expect westerners to understand Chinese
> mindsets.

We aren't escaping, we're learning and enjoying our lives. See one of the reasons we love our countries is because our countries allow us to travel freely and see the world, learn about new cultures and experience new ways of life.

> The Chinese, throughout history, have a very
> strong bond with their "motherland". For eg it is
> not unusual for overseas Chinese to request that
> upon death, their ashes be brought back to the
> motherland. When a Chinese talk about returning to
> China, he/she will simple say "hui guo", which
> means return to the motherland. It is not even
> necessary to say "which" country because it's so
> obvious.

And yet, most Chinese I meet seem pretty happy to leave their "motherland" for their whole lives to get a better quality of life and make money. So I guess their "love" of China isn't quite as strong as they'd have you believe. and the foreigners abroad? They mostly all go back home after a couple years because they miss their homeland. So which group here is showing love and which group here is just giving lipservice to love?

Yes, you are almost getting there. There is no tangible thing about the country that Chinese love.

If you are trying to find a specific word - I would say it's "kinship" - which I know is a strange concept for westerners to grasp. U know the English saying "home is where the heart is"? That's China. Kinship is strong among the Chinese and it has been so for thousands of years. If you study Chinese literature, there are lots of songs and poems that reflects the writer's longing for home, village, parents, etc.

Chinese leave their country mainly for economic reasons (in search of money) or for education. While a small percentage do leave the country in search of "greener pastures", most eventually return.

As I am typing this, I am making flight arrangements for my mum to return to Guangzhou for a big re-union with her cousins (who are Chinese-Americans but are contemplating a return to China for good). They have not seen each other for 30+ years. They think of US as their adopted home but GZ is still where the heart is.

During the HK handover to China, a lot of HK people emigrated to Canada for fear of the communist govt. Most of these people are now back in HK when they later realized that the communist regime is not the bogeyman that western media made them out to be.

Overseas Chinese are the only people I know who repatriates money back home to help the motherland in times of hardship (eg during the Sichuan earthquake) and to restore their ancestral homes etc. If you ask a westerner where his ancestral home is, the reply would be "huh?"


Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, what you are saying is that there really isn't
> any specific or material reason many Chinese say
> they love their country - it is more of a
> spiritual or psychological "bond"? You are
> correct, it is a very different concept, at least
> to me....

Have you ever been to Bali? I happened to talk to 2 ladies there, one from the US and the other from UK. Both left their messy lives and cheating spouses back home and are happy to be starting new lives in Bali. There is something in Asia that offers spiritual healing to battered souls - perhaps it's the culture, the people, or maybe the climate? I don't really know but I have lived in the west and even the pigeons looked sad over there. So I can understand why westerners flock to the east in droves and most of them never looked back.

BTW I travel as freely as you or anyone else. And I think I have seen more of the world than you do.

Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We aren't escaping, we're learning and enjoying
> our lives. See one of the reasons we love our
> countries is because our countries allow us to
> travel freely and see the world, learn about new
> cultures and experience new ways of life.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you ever been to Bali? I happened to talk to
> 2 ladies there, one from the US and the other from
> UK. Both left their messy lives and cheating
> spouses back home and are happy to be starting new
> lives in Bali.

Wow!! 2 people out of the millions traveling! You MUST be right! Wait a second. I saw two Chinese guys kissing at a bar in Beijing, CHINESE GUYS ARE ALL GAY!!!

> There is something in Asia that
> offers spiritual healing to battered souls -
> perhaps it's the culture, the people, or maybe the
> climate?

There's something about leaving your home after you've been beaten or abused at home that helps people. Doesn't matter where you go, just somewhere new and different.

> BTW I travel as freely as you or anyone else. And
> I think I have seen more of the world than you do.

As we've already established, you are not a typical Chinese. In fact weren't you born somewhere else or gave up your Chinese citizenship for a British Commonwealth passport? Typical lies by Astroboy again...

From your reply above
"While a small percentage do leave the country in search of "greener pastures", most eventually return."

Bullshit. The overseas Chinese population is massive and continues to grow every year. They aren't coming back except for a few who realize there is money to be made here, but many of them still retain their foreign passports because it's Much easier to travel and do business with them.

"Most of these people are now back in HK when they later realized that the communist regime is not the bogeyman that western media made them out to be."

Do you enjoy blatantly lying to your fellow Chinese? Richmond is FULL of Chinese who never went back to Hong Kong. There's a good reason one of Vancouver's nicknames is Hongcouver. those who went back were very wealthy and almost all of those who went back retain their British Passports and have homes in Canada.

"Overseas Chinese are the only people I know who repatriates money back home to help the motherland in times of hardship"

Surprise, surprise. yet again. BULLSHIT. Most people living in first world countries while their family and friends are back in developing coutnries will send money home. Do some bloody research about the lies you spew.

"If you ask a westerner where his ancestral home is, the reply would be "huh?" "

And just to round it all up, Bullshit. They might find the phrasing of the question stupid but they wont reply "huh?", they'll reply their home country.

I'm always disgusted by people like you who claim to like their fellow Chinese and then just continously and obviously lie to them about everything. Are you a member of hte party? You'd do well there...

Ok, I take it that you have never been to Bali. If you are in central Ubud, for eg, and u throw a stone, chances are, it will hit a westerner. Those 2 ppl I cited as eg were just the tip of the iceberg.

The same is happening in BJ, Shanghai etc. Thousands of foreigners and increasingly more everyday. You, yourself, are in China so you should be true to your conscience and explain why you are not back home instead.

In Vietnam, there is a hill resort called Dalat that is like a French town, populated by French ppl. Go figure that out.
> Wow!! 2 people out of the millions traveling! You
> MUST be right! Wait a second. I saw two Chinese
> guys kissing at a bar in Beijing, CHINESE GUYS ARE
> ALL GAY!!!

I think you are the one bullshitting here. China is the most populous nation on the planet. If it's true that everyone's leaving, we wouldn't have that problem of overcrowding in China *lol*
> Bullshit. The overseas Chinese population is
> massive and continues to grow every year. They
> aren't coming back except for a few who realize
> there is money to be made here, but many of them
> still retain their foreign passports because it's
> Much easier to travel and do business with them.

I have been to Richmond. If you visit the Chinese homes there, the father or the parents are usually missing (they are back in China or HK). The kids stay behind for education sake. After they graduate, some get assimilated into mainstream Canadian society while the high-achievers usually head back home to HK/China where the money/action is. Get your facts, right.
> Do you enjoy blatantly lying to your fellow
> Chinese? Richmond is FULL of Chinese who never
> went back to Hong Kong. There's a good reason one
> of Vancouver's nicknames is Hongcouver. those who
> went back were very wealthy and almost all of
> those who went back retain their British Passports
> and have homes in Canada.

I do not belong to any party but I am against western propaganda. People like you who grew up with a biased and distorted view of Asian culture & history. Eg US lost the Vietnam War and got their asses kicked out of the country but a lot of westerners do not know that fact unless they visit Vietnam and visit one of the war museums.
>I'm always disgusted by people like you who claim to like their fellow Chinese and then just continously and >obviously lie to them about everything. Are you a member of hte party? You'd do well there...

Although it is hard to get to the good points through all of the animosity I read on the board at times, I feel that there have been some good answers and discussions about propaganda, foreign citizenship, escaping troubles in your home country, the "calling" of your own country even after years away, leaving for greener pastures, etc...however, I'd like to get back to the question and avoid straying off too far into generalizations, mud-flinging, simple answers, and convenient explanations. By the way, evidence, well-written and researched articles, and statistics are always more useful when debating a point rather than a few personal experiences. Personal experiences are often good for raising the question or giving one potential answer, but should not be used to rationalize one's own opinion as being the "correct" one. If you have any links to information on the web supporting what you say (this applies to anyone) I think it would be good to post those as well. Astroboy, Uberche, Kurt - I want to say thanks because you have given me a lot of answers and new questions to think about. I agree with some of your points, disagree with others, but for now I'd like to simplify this question, if possible. #1 - What country are you from? #2 - Can you tell me something that you love, and something that you do not love, about your country?

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I take it that you have never been to Bali. If
> you are in central Ubud, for eg, and u throw a
> stone, chances are, it will hit a westerner. Those
> 2 ppl I cited as eg were just the tip of the
> iceberg.
>
> The same is happening in BJ, Shanghai etc.
> Thousands of foreigners and increasingly more
> everyday. You, yourself, are in China so you
> should be true to your conscience and explain why
> you are not back home instead.
>
> In Vietnam, there is a hill resort called Dalat
> that is like a French town, populated by French
> ppl. Go figure that out.
> > Wow!! 2 people out of the millions traveling!
> You
> > MUST be right! Wait a second. I saw two Chinese
> > guys kissing at a bar in Beijing, CHINESE GUYS
> ARE
> > ALL GAY!!!
>
> I think you are the one bullshitting here. China
> is the most populous nation on the planet. If it's
> true that everyone's leaving, we wouldn't have
> that problem of overcrowding in China *lol*
> > Bullshit. The overseas Chinese population is
> > massive and continues to grow every year. They
> > aren't coming back except for a few who realize
> > there is money to be made here, but many of
> them
> > still retain their foreign passports because
> it's
> > Much easier to travel and do business with
> them.
>
> I have been to Richmond. If you visit the Chinese
> homes there, the father or the parents are usually
> missing (they are back in China or HK). The kids
> stay behind for education sake. After they
> graduate, some get assimilated into mainstream
> Canadian society while the high-achievers usually
> head back home to HK/China where the money/action
> is. Get your facts, right.
Astroboy,the chinese gay,the former caucasian wannabe,who was a misfit after he got to West.A person who loves to show off how great his english is that his english has had beaten up native speakers before,but he can't spell chinese pinyin properly.
对牛弹琴-dui niu tan qing
correction:dui niu tan qin.
There were 133,340 foreigners in Shanghai in 2007 according to official information meanwhile the total population of shanghai was 19,213,200，it means foreign population only made up 0.007% of shanghai population,and shanghai has the biggest foreign population amongst all chinese cities.but chinese immigrants made up 18% population of vancouver.If the portion of foreign population makes you think that westerners are flocking into China,Astroboy,what about the the portion of chinese in western big cities,maybe we can say the chinese population are so massive that they are just like cockroachs flood.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 08:53AM by Kurt.

That one loves his country needs no reasons.don't be so rational on the issue of patriotism.

Daviddong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That one loves his country needs no reasons.don't
> be so rational on the issue of patriotism.


typical chinese way of thinking,now you get the point,xietingfeng.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I take it that you have never been to Bali. If
> you are in central Ubud, for eg, and u throw a
> stone, chances are, it will hit a westerner. Those
> 2 ppl I cited as eg were just the tip of the
> iceberg.

I have been to Bali and for every one foreigner I met there who was staying I met 20 or 30 who were just having a bit of fun before going home.

> The same is happening in BJ, Shanghai etc.
> Thousands of foreigners and increasingly more
> everyday. You, yourself, are in China so you
> should be true to your conscience and explain why
> you are not back home instead.

I live in Beijing and there are very few foreigners who actually want to live in China, they are here on contracts and then they go home. By far and away most foreigners I meet are either here making money before returning home or are just here learning for a year or so and then going home.

But you're right, I'm a great example of a foriegner in China a long time, Why havent I gone home, because I've seen almost every area of Canada and I want to see more. It's also why I'm considering leaving China and moving to South or Central America to see how life is over there. Maybe in another year or two depending on how life goes.

> In Vietnam, there is a hill resort called Dalat
> that is like a French town, populated by French
> ppl. Go figure that out.

WOW! A WHOLE hill resort filled?!?! That's FREAKING amazing!!! OH wait... most major western cities have very large sections filled with Asians.

> I think you are the one bullshitting here. China
> is the most populous nation on the planet. If it's
> true that everyone's leaving, we wouldn't have
> that problem of overcrowding in China *lol*

Wow... that's how your logic works? no wonder you keep coming out with shit like this... 1.3 Billion are not going to be sovled by immigration. China has enough people to populate the USA 4 times... You can more than double the size of Canada with just the males who will never be able to marry in China.

> I have been to Richmond. If you visit the Chinese
> homes there, the father or the parents are usually
> missing (they are back in China or HK). The kids
> stay behind for education sake. After they
> graduate, some get assimilated into mainstream
> Canadian society while the high-achievers usually
> head back home to HK/China where the money/action
> is. Get your facts, right.

Bullshit. I grew up in Vancouver and went to school in a school with 80% Chinese students in West Vancouver for 2 years. Their parents were living in Canada. My best friend is married to a girl from Richmond. Father's there and most of her friends are the same. You're taking a small minority and trying to pretend it's not.

> I do not belong to any party but I am against
> western propaganda.

Of course not because you wouldn't want it competing with your own bullshit....

> People like you who grew up
> with a biased and distorted view of Asian culture
> & history. Eg US lost the Vietnam War and got
> their asses kicked out of the country but a lot of
> westerners do not know that fact unless they visit
> Vietnam and visit one of the war museums.

True! No wait... I mean Bullshit!! Most Westerners know the US lost Vietnam and got their asses kicked out of the country. There some retarded Americans who pretend that it was a draw but most people back home laugh at those idiots.

Better to be a Chinese gay than a Dutch wanker, lol~
> Astroboy,the chinese gay,the former caucasian
> wannabe,who was a misfit after he got to West.A
> person who loves to show off how great his english
> is that his english has had beaten up native
> speakers before,but he can't spell chinese pinyin
> properly.

I see u have been secretly practicing your Chinese. haha... so u must be one of those closet-China admirers who dare not come out in the open. Admit it, u just love us Chinese...hahaha!
> 对牛弹琴-dui niu tan qing
> correction:dui niu tan qin.

The difference between Shanghai and Vancouver is this. The Chinese govt makes it difficult for foreigners to come in. Despite the difficulties, more and more are coming. As for Canada, it is so under-populated and needed foreign investments so badly, it practically begged the wealthy Chinese to emigrate there.

Chinese wherever they go, either provide labor or bring wealth to the country. The only thing Dutchies like u bring to other countries is pornography.
> There were 133,340 foreigners in Shanghai in 2007
> according to official information meanwhile the
> total population of shanghai was 19,213,200，it
> means foreign population only made up 0.007% of
> shanghai population,and shanghai has the biggest
> foreign population amongst all chinese cities.but
> chinese immigrants made up 18% population of
> vancouver.If the portion of foreign population
> makes you think that westerners are flocking into
> China,Astroboy,what about the the portion of
> chinese in western big cities,maybe we can say the
> chinese population are so massive that they are
> just like cockroachs flood.

RIGHT! Tell it to this guy ----> [en.wikipedia.org]
He is not going home anytime soon and no prizes for guessing why. Back home, he is Mr Nobody.
I do hope u would stop with your lies.

> I live in Beijing and there are very few
> foreigners who actually want to live in China

China is the largest immigrant sending country for Canada,Australia,New Zealand,and second largest immigrant sending country for US,Astroboy you can keep spew shit.you can keep pretending that China is a wonderland that foreigners desperately want to come in and every oversea chinse is moving back(I am happy to see them move back).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2010 02:28AM by Kurt.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RIGHT! Tell it to this guy ---->
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> He is not going home anytime soon and no prizes
> for guessing why. Back home, he is Mr Nobody.
> I do hope u would stop with your lies.

WOW!!! Again! you TOTALLY got me! One foreigner who lives here because he's a nobody back home. You are a debating machine! And by that I mean you are formulaic and completely lacking any original thought.

As you said in another thread

"Where are all the educated Chinese, the social elites, the scholars, the middle-class etc? They are mostly in Taiwan, HK or have emigrated overseas. U may find some still in BJ, Shanghai, Guangzhou etc. But u will rarely encounter them on the streets in China."

Exactly.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The difference between Shanghai and Vancouver is
> this. The Chinese govt makes it difficult for
> foreigners to come in.

It's VERY easy to come in. Hard to stay. and foreigners don't care. I hear almost everyday Chinese complaining how hard it is to go abroad but very very rarely have I heard any foreigners complaining about how hard it is to become Chinese. Why would a foreigner want to become Chinese? Answer that and maybe we'll have an answer for why Chinese love their homeland.

It's VERY easy to come to China. and yet Shanghai has only 0.007% foreigners. Why is that? Becuase while it's great to come and see China and the Chinese people are wonderful people, China does not offer any perks for living here compared to Canada or many other Western countries, you can talk about the economy until the shit coming from your mouth chokes you to death but the fact remains the standard of living in China is very low. There is no social welfare and the environment has been devestated, so again, why would a foreinger want to become Chinese?

That's a great question but I cannot answer you because I am not a westerner. Perhaps u should direct your question to Dashan (aka Mark Rowswell) and thousands more like him who chose to stay put in China? Or maybe ask Kurt or yourself why you would want to stay in China for so many years given all the "disadvantages", the great cultural disparity and the obvious language barrier? I am curious to know, too, what is it about China that westerners find so fascinating. Pray tell me.


Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>There is no social welfare and the
> environment has been devestated, so again, why
> would a foreinger want to become Chinese?

To answer your last question from my perspective Astroboy, I came here because I was curious. Having lived in Central and South America, and having lived with a Cuban family in America for a year, I was looking for someplace new. I thought as the largest country by population, and one of the largest by area, China would be very interesting - and I was right. I actually like going to a new place with such cultural disparity and enjoy the challenge and allure of a language barrier. The language barrier itself makes for many interesting and fun times. One point about the economy is that while it is indeed true that China is becoming wealthier and the living standard is rising, it is still far below many other countries that a lot of the foreigners come from. If I wanted to, I could live in the US and make more from an unemployment check than I can here working in an environment that is not exactly easy at times. Or, I could take my old job back and make much, much more. The point is, for me anyway, that China is another country on my "to go" list, and I would argue that for the vast majority of foreigners here, the purpose is not to come and live out their lives here, but only to come here for business, education, or travel purposes. As I have mentioned before, there ARE a lot of great things about China. As Daviddong posted, and Kurt seemed to point out, maybe this post and this question are just too rational for some to grasp. But, maybe people are making it out to be too complicated when it really is simple. Can I dare to ask one more time - to anyone now, not just Chinese - where are you from, and what do you love or not love about your country?

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a great question but I cannot answer you
> because I am not a westerner. Perhaps u should
> direct your question to Dashan (aka Mark Rowswell)
> and thousands more like him who chose to stay put
> in China? Or maybe ask Kurt or yourself why you
> would want to stay in China for so many years
> given all the "disadvantages", the great cultural
> disparity and the obvious language barrier? I am
> curious to know, too, what is it about China that
> westerners find so fascinating. Pray tell me.
>
>
> Uberche Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >There is no social welfare and the
> > environment has been devestated, so again, why
> > would a foreinger want to become Chinese?


I was in China for quick bucks,very simple.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To answer your last question from my perspective
> Astroboy, I came here because I was curious.
> Having lived in Central and South America, and
> having lived with a Cuban family in America for a
> year, I was looking for someplace new. I thought
> as the largest country by population, and one of
> the largest by area, China would be very
> interesting - and I was right. I actually like
> going to a new place with such cultural disparity
> and enjoy the challenge and allure of a language
> barrier. The language barrier itself makes for
> many interesting and fun times. One point about
> the economy is that while it is indeed true that
> China is becoming wealthier and the living
> standard is rising, it is still far below many
> other countries that a lot of the foreigners come
> from. If I wanted to, I could live in the US and
> make more from an unemployment check than I can
> here working in an environment that is not exactly
> easy at times. Or, I could take my old job back
> and make much, much more. The point is, for me
> anyway, that China is another country on my "to
> go" list, and I would argue that for the vast
> majority of foreigners here, the purpose is not to
> come and live out their lives here, but only to
> come here for business, education, or travel
> purposes. As I have mentioned before, there ARE a
> lot of great things about China. As Daviddong
> posted, and Kurt seemed to point out, maybe this
> post and this question are just too rational for
> some to grasp. But, maybe people are making it
> out to be too complicated when it really is
> simple. Can I dare to ask one more time - to
> anyone now, not just Chinese - where are you from,
> and what do you love or not love about your
> country?

I am from Netherland,I love my country,but we have many inassimilable and lazy,violent muslim immigrants here,they live on social welfare and give birth many,built many mosques,they threaten everyone who can't agree with Islamism,one dutch cartoonist has been killed serveral years ago by a muslim due to his caricature of Allah

That's because you people are weak and u allow yourself to be sidelined by the immigrants. You have only yourself to blame for indulging in porn all day long and forgetting to manage your little country. That is why I support a strong and united China with tough immigration rules and capital punishment for foreigners who break the law in China.

Kurt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am from Netherland,I love my country,but we have
> many inassimilable and lazy,violent muslim
> immigrants here,they live on social welfare and
> give birth many,built many mosques,they threaten
> everyone who can't agree with Islamism,one dutch
> cartoonist has been killed serveral years ago by a
> muslim due to his caricature of Allah

U r absolutely right. It's easy to come to China for studies, as a tourist, short-term employment etc. But try getting a long-term residency. They would most likely make u jump through loops of fire, if not impossible.

On the other hand, I was offered Canadian PR at a snap of the finger. I rejected it in favor of a Euro-PR. I gave that up after a few years, as I realize that China is where I really belong. Right now, the axis of economic power revolves around China/Asia so I cannot imaging being anywhere else.

Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's VERY easy to come in. Hard to stay.