Take a step back from what youa re saying here and look at it. Chinese is a great language, but it's no more ingenious than others. Tone down the arrogance and people will react better to what you say.

You misconstrued my words. I only said Chinese is one of the most complicated and ingenious languages. I didn't say it's better than English or other languages. Even if I said it's the most ingenious language, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. Actually English has a lot of advantages. It's much easier to learn and has relatively strict grammars. Every language has to have some redundancy, but having the best redundancy doesn't necessarily mean the best. A language can have more vitality just because it's simple and practical. Take the example of the operating systems we use on our computers. More than ten years ago, the DOS system was the most popular system running on most personal computers. Because at that time hard disks and memories we used were very small and expensive. There are a lot of ways to measure the practicality and vitality of a language, different people will always come up with different opinions. But one thing is important, the human brain is very limited. If you liken a language to an operating system for the human brain, it's very hard to tell which language is the best or has the best potential. Our brains have both temporary memory and long-term memory, learning and using a complicated language may take up too much room of our precious memories. At the current evolution speed, without altering human genes, human brains won't change much in the next 300 years.
Besides that, you said you are sick of hearing Chinese people bragging about how great their language is. That's not true. We Chinese only express our opinions when being asked.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2010 12:51PM by Cindy.Zhou.

Don't get me started with Putonghua. I'm surprised considering every province in China has different accents that make it pronouce things differently that they don't improvise and be more forgiving on their listening. In fact its funny seeing Chinese people not understanding another Chinese person's putonghua lol. Its like seeing an American trying to understand what that scottish guy is saying.

——————————————————————————————————————————

I actually like the sounds of Cantonese more than Mandarin. When I go to KTV or sing around my friends, they think my pronunciation is fine and in fact compared to some of the Chinese who cannot speak Cantonese, it is better. I agree that the sounds are very different, much more strange at first than Mandarin, but they can be learned with patience, repetition, and a good teacher. Cantonese is, to me, a much more beautiful sounding language than many around the world.

——————————————————————————————————————————

Actually, even within Chinese themselves, there are a lot of controversies as to whether Mandarin is good enough to be the official language. I remember someone in this thread once mentioned there are too many dialects in China. Northerners find it hard to speak Cantonese, Southerners find it hard to learn standard Mandarin. Because during the past hundreds of years, there were more than a dozen major minority groups which spoke different languages. After hundreds of years’ vicissitude, those minority languages made certain impacts on people living in different regions. The origin of nowadays Shanghai and Suzhou dialect is the oldest and most popular language used during most part of the past 2000 years. In the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), the Mongolian ruled China; their language had some limited impact on China's northern area. During the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), nowadays shanghai dialect was the official language. At that time, Shanghai dialect was the dominant language in Beijing. Later, the Manchu ethnic tribe overthrew the Ming Dynasty and became the ruler (1644-1912). At first, they still used their own language. But later, they found their language was too limited. They couldn't use their own language to describe different kinds of flowers or architectures. They also lacked a lot of special terms in fields like medicine, textile and science. The Manchu language and the Japanese language fall in the same Altaic language family. Both of them don't have tones. That was way Manchu people found it very hard to learn Shanghai dialect, but by any means, they managed to create their own Manchu Chinese(at first the Manchu Chinese was very awkward, sort of like Chinglish, can easily became the laugh stock of native speakers), which was the origin of nowadays Mandarin(满大人) . Several years ago, I heard a piece of news that the last people who can speak the Manchu language was in her 90s. It was sad to see a major language totally disappeared, but many of its words had been assimilated into nowadays Northeastern and Beijing dialects. When Sun Yat-Sen, the founding father of the KMT party, first founded the Republic of China, he even thought of making Cantonese the official language. But due to the vast influence of Mandarin, he didn't make it anyway. Even nowadays, there are still a lot of Chinese argueing which one is better, Mandarin, Shanghai dialect or Cantonese? This question is very hard to answer, only time can tell which one has the best vitality.

Anyway, discussing this question is a bit silly. I will leave this thread now. It takes up too much of my precious time.

I TRIED to tell you that 2 or 3 pages ago - to just leave it alone....glad you are finally listening to me! Haha. Some topics would be GREAT for a face-to-face group discussion where everyone is in the same room together, but using the internet and only the written words in a sometimes clumsy and delayed back and forth format, the same topic can be a huge waste of time. Spend your time doing better things - like playing PS3 or watching movies.

Cindy.Zhou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am afraid due to the cross-subject problem, your
> method is still not practical. People will easily
> get confused with so many similar words.

That was one set of words, there are many ways to stop the confusion problem like putting them in VERY different areas (Heroin, Heroine) for example. And that was one simple organization of letters, I could make thousands more easily. I've said all this already.

> Whether you are an ass or not has nothing to do with me.
> If you want to be polite, I will talk nicely too.

Polite is nice. Even when someone corrects your translations and tells you you are wrong, polite is nice. Telling them they don't know anything about Chinese is not so polite.

> You misconstrued my words. I only said Chinese is one of
> the most complicated and ingenious languages. I didn't
> say it's better than English or other languages.

Agreed, it was when you started saying English was not going to be able to be expanded like Chinese was that you started being insulting.

> Take the example of the operating systems we use on our
> computers. More than ten years ago, the DOS system was
> the most popular system running on most personal
> computers. Because at that time hard disks and memories we
> used were very small and expensive.

Now you are comparing English to DOS? So Chinese would basically be Pictionary DOS. In terms of usability English and Chinese are about the same.

> Besides that, you said you are sick of hearing Chinese
> people bragging about how great their language is. That's
> not true. We Chinese only express our opinions when being
> asked

I think because you are Chinese you never hear Chinese expressing their opinions on these matters but I get told a lot in China that their food is the most complicated, their food is the most varied, Chinese is the most intelligent language, Chinese people are the most friendly, Chinese people care about their families more than the West and on and on and on.

Not everyone does this obviously, I'm hoping you don't, however enough do that literally about once a week I hear the most friendly and the food ones, the 5000 years of history usually a couple times a month and the rest are scattered. Sorry you get lumped in with them but if you ever deal with foreingers it's a good idea to let you know why they might not seem so excited when you tell them these things.

For example, I'm a vegetarian, every dinner I go to where people eat meat someone thinks it's absolutely hilarious to try to make a joke about making me eat meat, the first couple times it was mildly funny, after a while it became annoying and after 15 years everytime someone does it I want to punch them in the face, I dont because that would be rude, but I want to. Each person who makes this joke thinks it's very funny, because they haven't had to sit and experience it 10's of thousands of times before. Each Chinese must think I'm going to be stunned that China has 5000 years of history, because each person doesn't realize that everyone I meet seems to want to tell me this.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I may paraphrase that: Astroboy, a foreigner,
> has better English than almost every white person
> in the western hemisphere - now do u know how
> stupid you sound?
>
> Uberche Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I love when you say such stupid shit like this.
> > DaShan, a foriegner, has better Chinese than
> > almost every Chinse person in this country.

Improving your mandarin pinyin as a chinese,You jackass!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2010 12:28AM by Kurt.

Astroboy,you are the biggest loser since ever,the only thing you can showing off repeatedly is your english skills as a citizen of a british commonwealth nation.You have been lived in many countries,but none of them is better than a country you have never really lived in-China,all you can do is fantasying how great that country is and how messed up those countries you have had lived in. Don't tell us you have lived in China just because yoou have travelled to there and have short working experience.
You are a loser,no matter how hard you trying to pretend it.
nationalistic Loser!

I think the way that some of you write to each other is quite ridiculous and I'd like to see the same bravado if we were all in the same room together, or better yet in a boxing ring....now THAT would be something to see.

That being said, I do have to agree with one point Kurt made (I think it is in there somewhere). If a person has never lived in a country for at least a year (the longer and the closer to the "average" citizen the better), and I mean truly lived there as a worker, student, etc...and not just visiting family or touring, then it is VERY hard to accept that person's evaluation and understanding of what a country is like.

Astroboy - I am NOT taking sides and will not attack you as others do. I think your thoughts and opinions are interesting and valid for their own reasons.

Astro, Myself, Kurt and a couple others who come and go here have a long history, we don't agree on much and generally insult each other a lot. Don't take it too seriously, the three of us have lived in the countries we criticise and there is no way you can be this vocal and assholish about he country you live in without getting your ass kicked repeatedly. I'm sure we are all much more decent and would be less insulting to each other in person.

I like China a lot, I just don't believe in hiding it's flaws. Astro thinks the West is out to destroy China throguh the Jews apparently and Kurt, well Kurt doesn't much care for China I'd say. Such is life.

Living the first year experiences in another country doesn't conclude things properly. The first year in Toronto I hated it. Toronto is a hard place to adapt at first. But once you get use to it and get a car its a very nice place and you'll enjoy it. Alot of immigrants are like that in Canada, first year they are not happy but then maybe within 5 years they will love it. Shanghai the first year is like puppy love. Most foreigners love it fast, but slowly start hating it. Alot of expats leave within 5 years. They had enough and usually leave not missing Shanghai. Shanghai is a fascinating place for most, but once the fascination is gone they will start seeing major flaws to why its not that great of a place to live in.

Different people will react differently to different places. But you can't really conclude places in 1 year. Short term impressions can differ from the long term impressions.

No worries, I am used to seeing that pesky fly buzzing around with the mental faculty of a child and constrained by a vocabulary limited to words like "SOB" and "jackass". Beyond that, he is clueless. It makes for good entertainment, really.

On the whole, I would tend to agree with most things u have said. FWIW because of the nature of my work, I am living out of a suitcase - dividing my time between China, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam. I am not a visitor to China - I am in Guangzhou every month or two. And each time I am in China for 2-3 weeks. And my ties with GZ goes back 2 generations, at least. Perhaps my outlook on China is from a southern (overseas) Chinese perspective, which may differ from someone (local or foreigner) living in BJ or Shanghai.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the way that some of you write to each
> other is quite ridiculous and I'd like to see the
> same bravado if we were all in the same room
> together, or better yet in a boxing ring....now
> THAT would be something to see.

I don't think the west is capable of destroying China and there is no reason to do so. But I do think the west is terrified of a strong and unified China that may soon replace America as the next world superpower and global "big brother". Ever since WWII, America has been No.1 and the thought of being displaced is naturally scary for anyone who is not Chinese.

Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Astro thinks the West is out to
> destroy China throguh the Jews apparently...

On another note, it's common even among Chinese to disagree on some issues. I was sitting among some folks from HK and Taiwan during a recent conference in Singapore and I brought up the topic about re-unification of Taiwan with China mainland. I suggested that a "one-country, two-system" policy might work for Taiwan. Just like HK-SAR, which is now going on about its business as if the Brits never left. Porn mags are still sold on the streets, street names and buildings are still colonial-sounding. Likewise for Macau which still uses Portuguese as a working language. The only difference is, the security and defense of HK/Macau is now handled by the PLA.

This suggestion got the Taiwanese all fired up and they said that this would only happen over their dead bodies. They went on about how Taiwanese may be Chinese by race but distinctively different compared to mainlanders by culture and social attitudes. They also reminded me that Taiwan was not a territory ceded to a foreign power with limited tenure. It was obtained through bloodshed. To have Taiwan returned to mainland would mean all those sacrifices made by their forefathers were in vain. I finally see their point. Touchy issue, indeed. And I am still wondering how this can be resolved amicably.

I know how it can be resolved "amicably". I know it is not a popular opinion here in the mainland, but the best thing to do might be for China to extend the invitation, present whatever advantages re-unification would offer, and then simply let Taiwan decide for itself what to do and accept the decision. The other "solution", to take it by force, would be about as far from "amicable" as you can get I believe. Forgetting how many would die, and how many millions of lives would be ruined, think about the future ramifications such actions would mean not only in terms of how the rest of the world views China but in the decades of social unrest that it would cost. China had a window of opportunity to take control of Taiwan by force in an acceptable way, or rather maybe "tolerable" is a better word, but it seems that window closed a long time ago. This (internal disputes) is one of the problems that exist (even within the mainland provinces) that hurts China in its international standing, especially regarding the method China uses to try to deal with the situation.

Moroes,

I agree with you. Notice I said "the longer and the closer to the "average" citizen the better". One year and only one year CAN be a bad timeframe to measure a country or city, but it is better than a few weeks or a month or two, or while just passing through on business or vacation right? My point was that a lot of people (not just here but in "real" life as well) will make statements about a place that they have limited or sometimes literally no direct experience with. I used to not notice until I started spending time in other countries and had people who have never been to America start telling me that I was wrong and they were right about the country I spent 30+ years in. At the same time, as I traveled about, I would get emails from friends and family full of stereotype and sensationalized-news fueled questions and concerns. Often, people have asked me what I think about another country and if my answer is "I don't know, I've never been there" you should see the looks I get sometimes. If you haven't seen a movie yet, how can you give me a review? If you've never been swimming, can you teach me how? If you've never heard a Chinese song, can you tell me if you like it? I think the world would be a better place if people were more willing to admit when they do not know enough about something to give an informed answer.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know how it can be resolved "amicably". I know
> it is not a popular opinion here in the mainland,
> but the best thing to do might be for China to
> extend the invitation, present whatever advantages
> re-unification would offer, and then simply let
> Taiwan decide for itself what to do and accept the
> decision. The other "solution", to take it by
> force, would be about as far from "amicable" as
> you can get I believe. Forgetting how many would
> die, and how many millions of lives would be
> ruined, think about the future ramifications such
> actions would mean not only in terms of how the
> rest of the world views China but in the decades
> of social unrest that it would cost. China had a
> window of opportunity to take control of Taiwan by
> force in an acceptable way, or rather maybe
> "tolerable" is a better word, but it seems that
> window closed a long time ago. This (internal
> disputes) is one of the problems that exist (even
> within the mainland provinces) that hurts China in
> its international standing, especially regarding
> the method China uses to try to deal with the
> situation.

Yeah, never understood the rational of those who advocate taking Taiwan with force. China would definitely be able to (barring US involvement which I think is highly unlikely) but Taiwan has a lot of missiles and could easily lay waste to Chinese cities as well as things like the 3 Gorges Damn and other needed infrastructure. I think the Chinese govenrment is smart enough to understand if China grows into a world power Taiwan will come back on it's own. If China doesn't become a world power, it will probbaly have a lot more problems of it's own to deal with anyway.

After Tiananmen, China is very unlikely to go down that route of taking the lives of its own people. It would be an "unpopular decision" on both sides of the Straits. I think the idea of mutual economic gains might pull both sides together. For the Chinese, there is no greater motivation than money.

BTW it's "rationale", not "rational". I wonder how u became an English teacher.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2010 12:37PM by Astroboy.

Astroboy - Do you honestly believe that China can ever be "No.1" in the same way that the United States was for much of the last 50-60 years? This is not a loaded question and I do realize that America is fast losing it's place, so it is not a "China vs. America" question either. I just doubt that the unique circumstances which led to America's rise cannot be repeated, and that the world has changed in such a way that no single country will ever be "No.1" in the same way again. Might China have the world's largest economy someday? Perhaps. Win the most medals at the next Olympics? Probably. But will Chinese entertainment ever dominate and shape cultures around the world? Will Mandarin ever be considered the international language? Will China ever lead the world in standard of living, environmental protection, literacy and education level as a percentage of total population, human rights and gender equality? Will the promise of the "Chinese dream" ever make China a melting-pot of other cultures and ethnic groups who would sacrifice all to live here? I am not claiming that America is tops in all of those areas either, and actually think America doesn't necessarily deserve its place - it just happened to turn out that way. My point is just that I think America is slowly but surely slipping as the world's "No.1" and when it no longer holds that spot, if it still does, no one country will ever take its place.

Succinctly put.

The US slipping away as no.1 economy doesn't mean much. When the US was no.1 guess where still has big influence? Oh right the British. Education systems played a big role in it. With so many places around the world using GCSE system for high schools. International Schools have a major influence and is usually where all the rich kids of that country will study in. The British still have some of the top universities that people around the world want to get into. Not bad for an ex no.1. This is just pointing out that ex no.1s are not just swept away and forgotten right away. In fact they know the media entertainment has strong influences and make movies for the world like Sherlock Holmes and Harry Potter to keep global interest. There was even an article that movies helped the English tourism industry.

I don't mean to say China will be No.1 in all areas. Since kaifang, China's GDP has been averaging 7-10% annually and it has kept up the pace despite the recent crisis. By sheer momentum alone, barring a market crash (which western analysts have been predicting but never happened), China will be propelled to the top within the next decade or so. China already has USD trillions in foreign reserves. From my observations of the top leaders in power now, most of them are uncomfortable playing world leader or assuming the big brother role. They would rather let America continue that role.

Throughout history, China and Chinese have always been "inward-looking". Preferring to mind its own business rather than meddling with world affairs. If China does assume No.1 position in world economy, it would do so reluctantly.

Oh - good answer! Thanks for the clarification. If Americans do have bad feelings toward China, it is not because they are scared or threatened that China will take over as "No.1". There is a growing awareness even in the general public that China IS an economic powerhouse that might someday hold the world's largest economy, but due to currency issues and government policies even having the largest economy won't give it the true "No.1" spot. By the way, it is not just western analysts who are predicting a market crash. Analysts all over this part of the world have given warnings, especially pertaining to the real-estate situation, and in fact the Chinese government has taken several steps to try to "deflate" the bubble rather than have it EXPLODE. (The bubble in America popped - in China it would be an explosion due to not just the economic impact but the danger of social unrest as well). The Shanghai Index, while not crashing spectacularly in a several day or week time frame, HAS dropped considerably from highs and as the Chinese government starts to allow more western-style market tools (such as buying and selling of futures) the danger there will only increase. For the sake of the Chinese people and world economic stability, I hope for the best for the Chinese economy, but I am just saying "don't be so sure" about the future.

Moroes - good point! That is one of the reasons I said that things will not be the same again in terms of one country being a clear "No.1". Due to globalization, and with technology where it is, every country is so connected that each country will have multiple ways to contribute something good to the world either based on past, present, or future roles and areas of expertise.

I like playing Fallout 3. I also like watching zombie and other apocalypse movies because I have a vivid imagination and like to wonder "what if". For there ever to be a new No.1 country, I think something very terrible and drastic would have to happen, and the first country to put itself together again, offer its citizens a relatively safe and comfortable lifestyle, rebuild its infrastructure and military, and "expand" it's borders by occupying some key now-uninhabited (due to the unnamed disaster) locations would have a shot at it.

Either that, or if some country makes a huge technological advance such as creating cheap and safe fission energy, inventing teleportation or time-travel, creating and controlling humans with psychic powers, etc....haha, far-fetched to impossible I know, but these are the things it would take to change the world so drastically.

“If China does assume No.1 position in world economy, it would do so reluctantly.”


relutantly? China is rushing to become #1.

I am not so sure about that Uberche. I think that many Chinese individuals DO want their country to be #1, but I do not think that the government really wants that because of what it would require to take that role. Currency changes (and recent news has highlighted their reluctancy to let the RMB trade freely), free-trade reforms, loosening government control on foreign businesses, swift changes to financial markets and regulation, opening their businesses to international scrutiny, making changes required for sustainability....maybe the government would love to have the highest capital reserves, or the "largest" economy in terms of dollar amounts, but I do not think they really want the role of the No.1 economy in the world because they would have to give up too much to hold it. Just an opinion.

I think you're getting the idea.
With leadership position, comes responsibilities, setting rules, abiding by it, and so on. China does NOT want to play by the rules - especially following so-called int'l best practices (which has been proven wrong on many occasions).

I remember one of China's leaders (can't remember who) saying something like "we are not a developed nation like the US..." which I thought was a bit of an understatement given its foreign reserves. But being low-key is typically Chinese.

BTW I don't know why the west is so hung up abt China re-evaluating its currency. It is not a guarantee that such a move would do anything to save the world. And all those dooms-day scenario about China's impending property/market crash etc - I would give China's economist more credit.


Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not so sure about that Uberche. I think that
> many Chinese individuals DO want their country to
> be #1, but I do not think that the government
> really wants that because of what it would require
> to take that role. Currency changes (and recent
> news has highlighted their reluctancy to let the
> RMB trade freely), free-trade reforms, loosening
> government control on foreign businesses, swift
> changes to financial markets and regulation,
> opening their businesses to international
> scrutiny, making changes required for
> sustainability....maybe the government would love
> to have the highest capital reserves, or the
> "largest" economy in terms of dollar amounts, but
> I do not think they really want the role of the
> No.1 economy in the world because they would have
> to give up too much to hold it. Just an opinion.

There is actually a lot of evidence that a stronger RMB would hurt the USA in more ways than it would help. Furthermore, considering that the largest importer of Chinese good is Europe, and due to the crisis with the Euro and that currency being part of what will dictate the RMBs value, there is a chance that the RMB would actually decrease in value in a fair market. I think what most people in the west, especially America, are "hung up" on is just that - a fair market. By controlling and manipulating the value of the RMB, many feel that China is not playing fair, and although there is wisdom in NOT playing fair, as you also understand and state in your post, playing fair is a dear concept to much of America. Whatever the result is, if China does allow their currency to float, at least that will be one less thing people will complain about and use as a reason why China is "bad".

As for China not being developed in the same way that America is - you did say you have been to America before right? How much time did you spend there, and in how many different places? If you compare America as a whole to China as a whole, I would agree with that person's statement. The difference between poverty levels, the difference of available services and products in small towns, the difference in the presence of preventable disease, variety of public services available to all citizens...I actually think that one of the more fascinating aspects of China is that here you can still find peasants, see people living in homes with dirt floors, and walk in small towns that seem like something from a movie depicting history from a hundred years ago with only a few subtle differences.

I am Chinese. I can tell you we are educated in this way, even from primary school, the first day we learn how to read and write Chinese. So I think it is about education.

Thanks Lgc. From what others have said here and told me in person, it seems obvious that being trained and taught to say this is a major factor. Do you mind if I ask you a personal question?

Do YOU say this? And if you do, do you really mean it and understand why you say it, or do you say it because you were taught to?

If you do love China, can you give some of the reasons why?

You don't have to answer if it is too personal but I am curious to know.

All's fair in love, war, and if I may add, business.
> By controlling and manipulating the value of the RMB,
> many feel that China is not playing fair

We don't know for sure. Economists have been wrong. Look back at the Asian 97 financial crisis and IMF's stupid suggestions.
> Whatever the result is, if China does allow their
> currency to float, at least that will be one less
> thing people will complain about and use as a
> reason why China is "bad".

There difference is in the distribution of wealth. In the US, u will find a larger group of middle-class. In China, a large majority of the population are still below poverty line and the govt knows this, as it may cause social unrest if left unchecked. However, comparing apples with apples, if u take America's financial capital ie New York and compare it with China's ie Shanghai, I think a lot might agree that Shanghai may be more advanced and a much safer city to live in.
> As for China not being developed in the same way
> that America is...

I agree with the safety issue as I have never been afraid to walk anywhere in China at any time of night, and when I hear loud pops and bangs I know it is fireworks and not guns. I have never felt threatened and most of the "crime" that I have known of (of course there are terrible crimes in the news but I mean the ones that happen to someone I know) involves petty theft where nobody gets hurt. There are some headline cases but generally the senseless violence and particularly horrible type of crime that you see in the USA seems to happen much less here. That being said, in NYC I was never afraid either, especially in Manhattan which is where most people think of when they refer to NYC. It is not like it was a few decades ago. I'd also agree that due to rapid growth and development that to the naked eye the big cities in China are at the same level as most big cities in the world, however that is why I used the expression "as a whole" in my previous post. The vast majority of the Chinese population, and thus the vast majority of the towns and cities, is still far below the standards in the USA. On another note - have you ever lived in Manhattan for any length of time? To be fair, I have never been to Shanghai so I can only go on what I see on the news, read on the internet, or hear from other people. If you took a survey of people that have lived for at least one year in both places, I'd be willing to bet that NYC is by far the most preferred to live in. Comparatively speaking, the air is clear and the skies are blue. The traffic is not so bad, and by bus or subway it is quick, easy and cheap to go from one end of the island to the other. At nights, especially during the winter if the snow is heavy, you can walk around central park and feel like the only person alive, and there are many places where you will not feel crowded or rushed. With a nod to Shanghai for its "international" status, few can argue that in NYC you can find the most culturally diverse entertainment, cuisine, and citizenry than in any other single city in the world. Being "developed" or "advanced" is not just about how new a city is, or how many skyscrapers and new roads you will find, it is also about how the people there live. Alas, NYC is much too cold for me. I prefer Naples, Florida.