To answer Xie Tingfeng, I do say this sometimes, but not very often. It is weird to say it everyday. The same we don't say we love our gf/bf everyday, but we do love them. There is no special reason, just like when we love people (e.g. gf/bf, wife/husband or parents), we don't need to think a reason why we love them. I can imagine the time we have to think a specific reason why we love them is probably the time we want to seperate from them, isn't it?

BTW, your IP name is interesting. Do you like him? If so, could u tell me why you like him? :-)

Haha - good question. I don't really care for him too much one way or the other - he has a few decent movies and some songs I like but the reason I use that as my name here is because it was the first Chinese name given to me. At the time, I had no idea who he was but accepted the name and then as people started to laugh at me I learned why and eventually dropped it. One time a local television station interviewed me and introduced me as 谢霆锋 and THAT was funny especially when people would ask me on the street "Are you xie tingfeng?" after the interview aired.

You do have a point about not always needing to think of a specific reason why you love something or someone, but in most of those cases it involves a personal, 2-way relationship featuring memories together, times of shared experiences and emotions, or examples of when that person has done something for you or with you. I can tell you several reasons why I love my family, friends, or girlfriend just by thinking for five seconds in addition to the general feeling of "no reason needed" that you write about.

I still don't understand how someone can love a non-sentient object without giving reasons why or simply state what they do or don't like about it.

Millions of Christians love their God, and they have never seen Him. Love for God, for country, for fellow humans, for parents, for sex partners, they are all different forms of love.

It's best not to be too analytical or academic about it. Just live and let live.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
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> I still don't understand how someone can love a
> non-sentient object without giving reasons why or
> simply state what they do or don't like about it.

They love their god because he's supposedly all loving and all forgiving.(that's highly debatable in my opinion though)

that's very different than loving their country for no apparent reason other than that they were told to.

Agree with Uberche. Whether you believe in God or not, or which one, you could give reasons why (or why not) you believe or "love" that God. Times you have felt blessed, the peace from meditation and prayer, the miracles you feel you have witnessed, or the opposite if you don't believe. I used the phrase "how someone can love a non-sentient" object. God, sex-partners, parents, other humans, even animals do not fall into this category. But a country? No. I get your point about not thinking too much about it Astroboy, but in this case I feel that is a lazy answer. You have given some answers, CindyZhou gave some answers, and so did some other people. Most of us can and will list several things that we like and dislike about out country. The whole point of this question was to ask why many Chinese have such a hard time doing the same, and a common answer seems to be that it is because they were taught to love their country without reason and forgive or ignore the negatives. Some of your other answers helped me understand why a person might love China, but your latest answer only adds to the "can't explain why for some reason" group.

You are not getting me. I could think of several reasons why I could love China, or America, SIngapore, HK or any place for that matter.

A staunch Christian could think of zillions of reasons why he loves God. An atheist cannot think of a single reason to love a "non-sentient" being. Most ppl love God because they were "taught from young to do so" like what u said re: China.

At the end of the day, it's a personal and individual feeling - why we love China, or not - and we need not have to justify it to anyone. Most Chinese don't care to say why because it sounds like quite a mundane question. A bit like asking "Why do u go to Church?" And the answer could be "Because I feel good about it."

I thought that is what these posts are for - to learn from each other and exchange opinions - so if you can think of several reasons, I'd love to hear them. You have given some already, is it so hard? Is there something wrong with asking questions about other countries on a website that apparently has cultural exchange as one its intended purposes? It is true that you do not "need" to justify it to anyone, but when so many avoid giving an answer, or their answer is something similar to "just because" can you understand why it contributes to the doubts and criticisms regarding the topic of the question? If you say that you love a restaurant but cannot say if it is due to the prices, or food, or service, then how much credence will people give to your words? If you say you love a movie but cannot say anything good about the actors, script, plot, scenery, or themes then how many other people will feel compelled to watch it? I do "get you". I understand. But I still stick to my point that if you say you love something but cannot explain why, that raises the question of whether the love is your true feeling or it is only a learned response. You are totally right, it is a personal and individual feeling and I am not asking someone to "sell" China or convince me how good it is. In regard to this question, my feelings about China do not matter, because I do not claim to love China. Every time that someone who claims to love China is asked why and does not answer and instead says something along the lines of "you just don't understand" or "it is something that can't be explained" that just adds to the suspicion that the "love" of China is just what some say it is - love without reason, based on teaching and conditioning.

That's just western suspicions and you are trying to project your thoughts by asking a seemingly "innocent" question. I could be wrong but you really want to know "why a Chinese could love a communist country", right?
> suspicion that the "love" of China is just what
> some say it is - love without reason, based on
> teaching and conditioning.

A lot of answers have been given and you should get it by now. It's very natural for a Chinese to feel a sense of belonging, pride and a love for the motherland which has provided sustenance for generations of Chinese over millions of years. The Chinese diaspora is spread out far and wide across the globe, but whenever we feel disoriented, lost or confused, we just have to look back to the Motherland for a sense of bearing, a sense of where we originated from and where we are going.

It's hard to explain to a foreigner. Maybe I can use the analogy of the northern star guiding the three wise men to the stables where they found their Christ. China is like that star.

I say this once and for all:
You can take a Chinese out of China but not China out of their hearts. This love for the motherland transcends politics and the impact of modernization (or westernization).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2010 07:17AM by Astroboy.

No, you are wrong. I have asked Americans, Canadians, Russians, Cubans, Italians and many others the same question. It IS an "innocent" question in that if someone says "I love my country" I simply want to know why. It might have started when I was in America because so many people would say something like "I love Mexico" or "I love Europe" (not just one country but apparently the whole continent) and when I asked why, there were many times when they had either never been there or were basing their "love" on a 5-day stay at a 5-star resort on the beach full of English-speaking staff and with every modern luxury they could want. I started to realize that when many people say "I love my country" that they are either basing that love on something they have heard from others or seen in a movie or a short vacation to a part of that country that has almost no connection to what that country is really like. So, I learned to be suspicious of these words, and now whenever I hear someone claim to love a country, ANY country, I also want to know why.

Not too many answers have been given from Chinese - maybe 6 or less? Hardly overwhelming or a valid data sample especially when all answers sound suspiciously similar. A few things ARE clear now, and one is that the idea of love to some is a vague concept that has nothing to do with a personal and daily experience. Another thing that seems clear is that some like to avoid answering a straightforward question by deflecting the question or making it into something more complicated than it was meant to be.

I like your analogy because it helps illustrate my point. I understand why Christians (and the wisemen in the story) love Christ, but do they love the star? Useful and part of their theology, yes, but "loved"? No. At the same time, I think data would show that not even the majority of Chinese regard China as their guide to salvation and peace, and indeed many would gladly leave China if given the chance.

Your last point - apparently it (the love) also transcends explanation and logic as well....

If everything is based on logic, religions, beliefs and cultures would not exist in this world. Christianity, for eg, is based entirely on FAITH (believe and you shall be saved).

> Your last point - apparently it (the love) also
> transcends explanation and logic as well....

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If everything is based on logic, religions,
> beliefs and cultures would not exist in this
> world. Christianity, for eg, is based entirely on
> FAITH (believe and you shall be saved).

Chinese people's love of their country is as real and intelligent as a belief in a magical man who loves people but will punish them to an eternity of hellfire for a small mistake in life?

huh....

This reminds me of the story of an ugly child with big head that nobody loves. One day, he went to his mum and asked, "Mother, why do u love me?"

The mother just smiled, stroked his big head and said, "Because..."

When and where did I say that "everything is based on logic"? I do not agree with this statement, so in turn I do agree with your idea that if everything is indeed based on logic, much would not exist in this world. Considering that, this post is not about Christianity, faith, or other concepts and beliefs that do not require logic or rationale. It is based on a simple question that most people from most countries can answer without much of a problem at all.

I should post another question - "Do Chinese ever admit when they are wrong?". I wonder if that would be met with the same confused and lazy answers as this question has?

I give you credit Astroboy - you ARE a slippery one. Quite skilled at ignoring points that you are wrong about and avoiding questions for which you have no answer or response, usually by focusing on something insignificant or changing the topic. Good strategy, but it still leaves my simple question unanswered.

To Astroboy, I kept one eye on how the discussion going on last few days. I don't think we need to answer them furthermore and waste time here. Anyway who cares about what they think of us. We know we love our country and that is enough. At first, I was stupid and thought they are really interested in listening to the answers. But later I get a feeling what they really want to hear is the OPPOSITE.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I should post another question - "Do Chinese ever
> admit when they are wrong?". I wonder if that
> would be met with the same confused and lazy
> answers as this question has?

By Astro, of course. it's what he does. Lots of Chinese know when they are wrong and can admit it the same as foreigners can but Astro just has no ability to admit it. it's why I don't often actually really debate him anymore, Just point out why he's wrong and laugh at answers.

The problem is that Chinese like Astro are very loud, especially on the internet, so it gives a bad impression on all Chinese. It's like one day on the The Beijinger website some American made a post entitled "I can insult my country, can you?" in it all the foreigners basically just made fun of the bad things about our countries, one of hte first Chinese to respond said something along the lines of "I could say bad things about China but overall our life is good so China is doing great". He didn't get why everyone thought it was hiliarious.

Many Chinese seem outright terrified to say anything bad about China infront of foreigners, I'm guessing it's that whole Face thing they have going.

You aren't stupid Lgc...just wrong. I DO honestly care. If you REALLY read my posts you would see that. I do not care what country you live in and whether you love it or not. I only want to know some reasons WHY you feel the way you do. It might be a failure of the education system that many Chinese cannot comprehend, process, and answer an independent-thinking and possibly critical question like this, I don't know, but for some reason as I said most people from most countries have no problem at all answering #1 - Do you love your country and #2 - What are the reasons why or why not?

Why are you so paranoid? Why are you so suspicious? Can't a man be curious?

Lgc Wrote:
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> Anyway who cares about what they think of us.

Good answer. I'm always curious why Chinese always ask me what people back home think of Chinese people... My answer is always "They don't."

And no one was asking you to care what we think, only asking a simple question. If we didn't care the answer we wouldn't still be talking about it. I'd be happy to hear someone give an answer that wasn't that they were taught to or based on some magical love all Chinese are suppose to have for China as that's the same answer. It's not a natural part of people otherwise there wouldn't be Chinese people who didn't like China.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2010 08:32AM by Uberche.

It' a question hard to talk about

Why is it hard for you? I have asked this question of many people, and most have no problem answering...is it hard because you do not know the answer or hard because you do not want to answer? I posted a new topic and changed the question a little bit, and there have been some answers posted so maybe if you look at it you can understand the question a little better. It really is a simple question, it just requires a little thought.

Yes, I fully understand. There are lots of trick questions like these thrown up by foreigners once in awhile just to gauge how we would react. They have already made up their minds what the answers should be as it's all been programmed into their minds from young (in psychology, we call it subliminal perception) so no answers you give them would be correct, other than the ones they want to hear.

Unfortunately for them, I am as educated as they are, if not better. I can smell a rat a mile away.

Lgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Astroboy, I kept one eye on how the discussion
> going on last few days. I don't think we need to
> answer them furthermore and waste time here.
> Anyway who cares about what they think of us. We
> know we love our country and that is enough. At
> first, I was stupid and thought they are really
> interested in listening to the answers. But later
> I get a feeling what they really want to hear is
> the OPPOSITE.

For someone who seems against telling lies to trash other people, you seem very quick to lie about me. I posted this question with honest intentions to obtain some sincere answers. It is not a "trick question" and because I do NOT have my mind made up about what people like about their country, I thought this might be an appropriate place to ask. Additionally, this is not about "correct" answers. You can like or dislike whatever you want to about your country - who am I to tell you what your preferences and tastes are, and what you like to do with your life...can I read minds? Wish I could, but I cannot. If you like spicy food, or snow, or cartoons, who am I to say "no, you don't like that, you are wrong." So, please, say what you want about other people but please stop lying about me.

But you're a foreigner, so you must be evil.

I am an overseas chinese but I love China because of its rich culture and history.

Uberche wrote :
-----------------------------------------
>I'm not saying China or Chinese is bad, just that it's no better than
>anyone else's language and country. there are plenty of places with 5000
>years of history, everywhere has beautiful scenery and food culture,
>everyone loves their own poetry beecause to them it sounds the best and
>usually everyone thinks their language is best because it's what htey
>understand and are used to.

Wrong Uberche, China is the only ancient civilization that survived till modern times intact. There are plenty of places with 5000
years of history but civilizations come and go, unlike China. BTW, the whites have the Chinese to thank for Renaissance, just read the peer-reviewed book entitled "1434" by Gavin Menzies.

So does that mean you are someone that loves history and culture and work in that field or studied it in college or? Do these things make your life better, give you intellectual stimulation, add to your daily enjoyment, bring a smile to your face, etc...?

What I am getting at is this; what does China's rich culture and history have to do with your life today and what practical applications does it have that matter to you? Do you also love Egypt, Iraq, Japan, North American Indians, Italy, etc.?

I am just trying to understand the whole concept a little better so if you'd indulge me I'd appreciate it. Also, if you have time, you could respond to my post "curious about other countries". I was trying to gather some information there but have not had too many responses.

My roommate just said something that sums up my previous post very well;

"I don't love my girlfriend because her great-great-great grandmother was cute."

Choupijiang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong Uberche, China is the only ancient
> civilization that survived till modern times
> intact.

Wrong Choupijiang, China has been broken, split up, reconquered and changed many times, just like all the ancient civilizations. Just having a country called China doesn't mean it's the same China. Current China has 60 years of history, the region where China is currently situated has 5000+ years of history, but so do all regions.

> BTW, the whites have the Chinese to
> thank for Renaissance, just read the peer-reviewed
> book entitled "1434" by Gavin Menzies.

And the Chinese have the Whites to thank for many cures for diseases. Lets just call it even and not try to play such childish games.

Wow, still beating a dead horse, eh?
I put it this way. Assuming you have a brother. And one fine day, he becomes the first man to land on Mars. His historic Mars landing is broadcast around the world. How would you feel? Would his achievement "make your life better, give you intellectual stimulation, add to your daily enjoyment, bring a smile to your face, etc...?" Or would you just walk away thinking it has nothing to do with you?


Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So does that mean you are someone that loves
> history and culture and work in that field or
> studied it in college or? Do these things make
> your life better, give you intellectual
> stimulation, add to your daily enjoyment, bring a
> smile to your face, etc...?

It is complicated. Some people are blind patriots. But most are not.

I agree "kinship".

In the chinese traditional culture, the Confucious attaches too much importance to kinship, and throw a profound influence on the chinese culture.

"country" or "hometown" is some place you were born and grew up, and you would never forget those memorable moments in your life. The trees, houses, the landscapes, the climate, the sky, parents, relatives.....

I have to say I love my country, as a Chinese. But it doesn't mean I am satisfied with everything in this country.

Maybe westners have different concept of "love".

Anyhow, this is a very good question.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So does that mean you are someone that loves
> history and culture and work in that field or
> studied it in college or? Do these things make
> your life better, give you intellectual
> stimulation, add to your daily enjoyment, bring a
> smile to your face, etc...?
>
> What I am getting at is this; what does China's
> rich culture and history have to do with your life
> today and what practical applications does it have
> that matter to you? Do you also love Egypt, Iraq,
> Japan, North American Indians, Italy, etc.?
>


> I am just trying to understand the whole concept a
> little better so if you'd indulge me I'd
> appreciate it. Also, if you have time, you could
> respond to my post "curious about other
> countries". I was trying to gather some
> information there but have not had too many
> responses.

As a Chinese who was born in another Asian country(not telling which country), I feel the need to get in touch with my roots and culture, so I have been reading up and researching about Chinese culture and history, and I found out that it is very interesting. It does give me intellectual stimulation (so does any other form of learning), and add to my daily enjoyment. To be more accurate, I should have said I like ancient China, because I have not lived in China before and modern China is urbanised.
Nonetheless, I am also very interested in Greek civilization, thanks to the movie '300'. I hope I have answered your question.

Good question Astroboy - I would not love my brother any more or less if he were the first man to land on Mars. I would be proud of him, but my level of love and affection would not change. I have two brothers, and I love them both because of the times we have had together. We have lived, laughed, loved, fought, cried, and spent many years together. I love them because I can talk to them about anything, and when we are together we can play, make jokes, watch sports, talk, and just share our lives. They support me and love me, and we have countless shared experiences. So, to answer your question, my brother's Mars landing would not have anything to do with me at all. It would be his accomplishment, not mine, and if anything I would be sad because it would mean I would never be able to be with him again (unless space travel technology makes great advances soon).

Choupijiang - Thanks for elaborating a bit more. It does help me understand!