Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's because you people are weak and u allow
> yourself to be sidelined by the immigrants. You
> have only yourself to blame for indulging in porn
> all day long and forgetting to manage your little
> country. That is why I support a strong and united
> China with tough immigration rules and capital
> punishment for foreigners who break the law in
> China.
>
> Kurt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am from Netherland,I love my country,but we
> have
> > many inassimilable and lazy,violent muslim
> > immigrants here,they live on social welfare and
> > give birth many,built many mosques,they
> threaten
> > everyone who can't agree with Islamism,one
> dutch
> > cartoonist has been killed serveral years ago by
> a
> > muslim due to his caricature of Allah


It's ridiculous to say I am indulging in porn all day along,I had 19 sexual partners when I was in China,those chinese girls come to me on their own initiative,and one of them were married.Dtuches aren't weak,we have tallest average height in the world and we look strong,just too many liberals like Uberche.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a great question but I cannot answer you
> because I am not a westerner.

No, you can't answer because there isn't one. Outside of money or the short term fun of being treated like a celebrity there is very few reasons to move to China. It doesn't offer any positives over a Western citizenship.

> Perhaps u should
> direct your question to Dashan (aka Mark Rowswell)

Fame.

> and thousands more like him who chose to stay put
> in China?

Or ask the 10's of Millions of Chinese who are immigrating to other countries.

> Or maybe ask Kurt or yourself why you
> would want to stay in China for so many years
> given all the "disadvantages", the great cultural
> disparity and the obvious language barrier? I am
> curious to know, too, what is it about China that
> westerners find so fascinating. Pray tell me.

It's fun to learn the culture and meet new people. But that fun doesn't last forever. A country needs to provide something that's actually useful if it wants to attract highly skilled immigrants.
As I've already stated I'm here because I enjoy learning about new people, I'm staying for another year or two because I've created a business opportunity that might allow me to never have to work hard again for the rest of my life, if it doesn't work out I'm leaving and going somewhere where simply breathing the air doesn't significantly shorten my life span.

> U r absolutely right. It's easy to come to China
> for studies, as a tourist, short-term employment
> etc. But try getting a long-term residency. They
> would most likely make u jump through loops of
> fire, if not impossible.

On the plus side very few foreigners actually want to so no problem!

> I gave that up after a few years, as I realize that
> China is where I really belong.

A Nationalistic loser who blatantly lies about the West and never actualy backs up anything he says. Yeah.... you must get along great with the party here in China. Canadians wouldn't put up with your bullshit for long.

You are just a hypocrite (伪君子) and you are in a state of denial.

Here are the facts:
US is ruled by a black president.
Europe is on the brink of bankruptcy. Refer --> [www.humanevents.com]
China is where everyone wants to be right now.

You are now in China and that says a lot. There are millions more like u beating a path to China and hoping to bask in its economic glory. I know the truth hurts but u just have to accept it.

Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Nationalistic loser who blatantly lies about the
> West and never actualy backs up anything he says.
> Yeah.... you must get along great with the party
> here in China. Canadians wouldn't put up with your
> bullshit for long.

Kurt,

Thanks for telling me what you like and don't like about your country. I have not been to Europe yet because I wanted to go places as least like America as possible first.

I think I remember reading the news about that cartoonist and being shocked because in America, everyone is "free game". Presidents, politicians, whichever God someone believes in ~ it does not matter how rich or powerful someone is, they are open to being satirized and mocked. That is one thing I like about America - the freedom to do and say whatever you want. That doesn't mean you can say anything without consequences, for example you can be sued if you blatantly lie either for your own gain or to try to bring someone else down. At the same time, the freedom to say anything is also a drawback because there are so many idiots that open their mouths and say the worst things. I like the convenience of life there. Almost everyone has their own car even at a young age and getting around is so easy and fast, with a great national highway system. It is also great that you can live in a small city and enjoy nature, uncrowded streets, and plenty of wildlife but at the same time enjoy the benefits (businesses and entertainment) of a big city. I like the fact that in America, you can find almost any sport in the world and people to play it with (there are a few like cricket for example that are hard to find) and the same with food. Chinese, Japanese, German, French, Spanish, Italian - any type of food you want, there is usually a place within a few miles where you can order some or buy what you need to make it yourself. I guess overall I like the consistent standard of living no matter the size of the city (actually in America the smaller cities are often much better than the large ones) and the fact that you can find any type of food or entertainment from all around the world easily. The variety of "things to do" anywhere you go is incredible, and I feel fortunate to have grown up there. Things I don't like include the low level of education and refinement that exists in the general public, the priorities of society, the welfare system, and the "me first" mentality.

I am a Chinese citizen and I have been living in China since the day I was born. My point is love is a two-way street. If you want a Chinese citizen to answer the question "do you love China", first you should ask a high-ranking Chinese official to answer the question "do you love each and every Chinese citizen?”, or "Do you think China really loves its people?" Marx, the founder of communism had once said, nation is a tool in the hand of the ruling class. In China, all media tells us the grassroot public is the ruling class of the country, all high-ranking officials publicly claim they love people and they are doing everything for the people. Yes, they sound very hypocritical, but if they don't say so, they will risk losing their official title, since communism is based on altruism. If a foreigner asks a Chinese citizen on the street "do you love China"? 100% percent the answer is "yes" or "of course". Every Chinese student must learn politics from primary school all the way to university. You need to memorize long paragraphs in politics textbooks in order to pass your exam. One sentence you must memorize is “love the party, love the country, love the people”. It sounds like a slogan, too empty.

At the same time I understand the bond or kinship between every Chinese, just like Astroboy has said, a lot of overseas miss their motherland terribly. If a foreigner asks a Chinese on the street “Do you love your culture and your mother tongue?” I think 100% percent the answer is "yes" or "of course". And this time, it's from the bottom of their hearts. Chinese people are proud of their mother tongue and their culture. That's true. We have 5000 years' history of civilization. We have so many architectural wonders in the world. The Chinese language is one of the most complicated and yet most ingenius languages in the world. Ancient Chinese poems in the Tang and Song dynaties had reached their peak as far as literary aesthetics goes. It's a pity most ancient Chinese poems are not translatable. Once you put it into another language, no matter how great your translation skill is, all the subtlety and beauty disappears. Apart from that, we also have our food culture and beautiful sceneries, from Tibet plateau to Tamu basin in Xinjiang, from inner Mongolian desert in the northwest to pearl river delta in the south. It's a pity some of the sceneries are tainted and polluted by modern construction.

大中国
Great China


我们都有一个家
名字叫中国
兄弟姐妹都很多
景色也不错

We all have one family
It's name is China
We have many brothers and sisters
and are proud of our beautiful sceneries

家里盘着两条龙
是长江与黄河
还有珠穆朗玛峰儿
是最高山坡

We have two wide rivers
Winding through endless expanses
They are called Yangtze and the Yellow River
Besides, we have Mount Qomolangma
The highest mountain in the world

我们都有一个家
名字叫中国
兄弟姐妹都很多
景色也不错

We all have one family
It's name is China
We have many brothers and sisters
and are proud of our beautiful sceneries

看那一条长城万里
在云中穿梭
看那青藏高原
比那天空还辽阔

Take a visit to the Great Wall
which spans thousands of miles amid endless clouds
Have a tour to the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau
The vast expanse is even grander than the sky

我们的大中国呀
好大的一个家
经过那个多少
那个风吹和雨打

Having weathered through
Endless years of rain and wind
Our great China
Is the largest family in the world

我们的大中国呀
好大的一个家
永远那个永远
那个我要伴随她

Our great China
Is the largest family in the world
I will remain with her
Through good and bad times

中国祝福你
你永远在我心里
中国祝福你
不用千言和万语

God bless China
You are always and will always be in my heart
God bless China
No words can express my love for you

The above song is translated by me. I think it can best explain why Chinese people say they love China.

cindy some spots of your translation got me a little confused. the chinese doesn't match the english. here are some I have found and quickly changed.

Cindy.Zhou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 大中国
> Great China
>
>
> 我们都有一个家
> 名字叫中国
> 兄弟姐妹都很多
> 景色也不错
>
> We all have one family (right)
> It's name is China (pretty close)
> We have many brothers and sisters (pretty close)
> and are proud of our beautiful sceneries (?????)

where is PROUD in that translation? I just see "The scenery is also good" or " the scenery is also not bad"
景色也不错

> 我们的大中国呀
> 好大的一个家
> 经过那个多少
> 那个风吹和雨打
>
> Having weathered through (no reference to weathered)
> Endless years of rain and wind (no reference to endless or years)
> Our great China (this should be at the top of the passage)
> Is the largest family in the world (?????)

its more like
Our great china
a very great big family
(no reference to the largest family in the world. in fact there is no reference to world 世界， 地球 in the chinese part.)

>
> 我们的大中国呀
> 好大的一个家
> 永远那个永远
> 那个我要伴随她
>
> Our great China ( correct)
> Is the largest family in the world (?????)
> I will remain with her (?????)
> Through good and bad times ( Where is this line in the chinese?)
>
I see you changed it here big time and put "our great china" at the beginning. but again no reference to the world.
its more like
Our great China
a very great big family
forever that forever
that I WANT to accompany her (China)

where are the good and bad times in that passage?

> 中国祝福你
> 你永远在我心里
> 中国祝福你
> 不用千言和万语
>
> God bless China ( where is god?)
> You are always and will always be in my heart (pretty close)
> God bless China (see above)
> No words can express my love for you (where is this line in chinese?)

... Interesting I see no reference to GOD in the passage its more like
Wish China Happiness (or Luck or fortune)
You are forever in my heart
Wish China Happiness (or Luck or fortune)
the last part I couldn't translate well
its like
no need for thousands of word
there is no reference to love for you, express,
just reference to thousands of WORDS and no need.

However I did enjoy reading your translation Cindy. keep up the good work.

> 我们的大中国呀
> 好大的一个家
> 经过那个多少
> 那个风吹和雨打
>
> Having weathered through (no reference to weathered)
> Endless years of rain and wind (no reference to endless or years)
> Our great China (this should be at the top of the passage)
> Is the largest family in the world (?????)


I am afraid you don't know much about Chinese-English translation. Look up "weather through" in a dictionary and you will know its meaning is "经过, 度过". Having weathered through endless years of rain and wind, literally, is 经过无数年的风吹雨打, 经过多少年的风吹雨打. I think it can exactly convey the original meaning. If you translate the lyrics word for word, the result will be terrible.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 11:37AM by Cindy.Zhou.

i dont even live in china and i love china. i dont have chinese citizenship; huko; have never lived in china. i was raised on american nationalism. as you can see the brain washing did not work.

我们的大中国呀
好大的一个家
永远那个永远
那个我要伴随她

Our great China
a very great big family(The translation is right. But in the Chinese lyrics, it only uses one adjective.)
forever that forever（It sounds weird. I have never heard native speakers say “forever that forever”, except in this thread. It sounds like a machine translation.）
that I WANT to accompany her(If you do a back translation, you can't translate that into 那个."that” used at the beginning of a clause is not translatable.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 11:59AM by Cindy.Zhou.

> I am afraid you don't know much about
> Chinese-English translation. Look up "weather
> through" in a dictionary and you will know its
> meaning is "经过, 度过". Having weathered
> through endless years of rain and wind, literally,
> is 经过无数年的风吹雨打,
> 经过多少年的风吹雨打. I think it can
> exactly convey the original meaning. If you
> translate the lyrics word for word, the result
> will be terrible.

well there is translating the meaning and then there is CHANGING the meaning and ADDING WORDS. I found quite a number of spots where you CHANGED the meaning and ADDED WORDS to suit your feelings. not the passages' idea.

Just looking at the Facts.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 11:48AM by Hanyustudent.

Cindy.Zhou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 我们的大中国呀
> 好大的一个家
> 永远那个永远
> 那个我要伴随她
>
> Our great China
> a very great big family
> forever that forever
> that I WANT to accompany her
>
> This is an exact word-for-word translation, it
> looks like a machine translation.

if you want to fluff it up....
Forever that forever I want to accompany her.

my goal was not for a fluffy translation but more of a CLEAR one.. with no added words just the ideas of the passages.

And Your english translation wasn't matching the chinese. Again just looking at the facts

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 11:56AM by Hanyustudent.

经过那个多少
那个风吹和雨打

Then translate these two lines, especially “经过那个多少". Don't forget what you have said, no "adding words", no "fluffing it up". I am looking forward to your great word-for-word masterpiece!

Thanks Cindy.Zhou and Kez5. I thought I was the only one speaking up for China.

Xietingfeng: To answer your question, I am an overseas Chinese. My parents are from China but I grew up overseas and have lived in several countries including the west. I have lived in so many countries that I cannot find a single one that I can feel attached to. All have their pros and cons. Melbourne is nice but Australia is a racist country. Vancouver is also nice but it's too slow-paced. Auckland is nice, too, but it's too isolated. London is great if you are a tourist but is otherwise polluted and the weather is miserable. San Francisco is one of my favorites but it's too expensive and earthquake-prone.

I am one of those who have gone full circle and have decided that there is nothing like returning to one's roots - in my case, that would be China. Because of China's geographical mass and diversity, I can enjoy winter while skiing in Harbin, spring in Chengdu amid the cherry blossoms, enjoy a cool summer in Inner Mongolia or autumn in the great Sichuan grasslands. Within China itself, the possibilities are endless.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are now in China and that says a lot. There
> are millions more like u beating a path to China
> and hoping to bask in its economic glory. I know
> the truth hurts but u just have to accept it.

If millions are beating a path here, where are they? It's INCREDIBLY easy to get into China to visit, and once visiting it's easier to become a citizen. So why aren't they here? Oh right, because you are full of shit.

Cindy.Zhou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Chinese language is one of the most
> complicated and yet most ingenius languages in the
> world.

I'd like you to back that up by why you think it's the most complicated and yet most ingenius. If it was ingenius it wouldn't be so complicated. An ingenius language would be one that is good at expressing everything but still isn't hard to learn so that people could easily learn your language and take part in your knowledge. An ingenius language wouldn't have a million different dialects that make even communicating with your own country's people very difficult. Chinese is a nice language, but it's far from ingenius.

> Ancient Chinese poems in the Tang and Song
> dynaties had reached their peak as far as literary
> aesthetics goes.

Everyone has their own opinion on what they like and don't like in poetry. Pretending Chinese is the best is as absurd and arrogant as pretending Chinese food is the best. It's a matter of taste.

> It's a pity most ancient Chinese
> poems are not translatable. Once you put it into
> another language, no matter how great your
> translation skill is, all the subtlety and beauty
> disappears.

Guess it's not such an ingenius language...

I'm not saying China or Chinese is bad, just that it's no better than anyone else's language and country. there are plenty of places with 5000 years of history, everywhere has beautiful scenery and food culture, everyone loves their own poetry beecause to them it sounds the best and usually everyone thinks their language is best because it's what htey understand and are used to.

Chinese love to say how modest they are, and then follow it up by telling you how they think everything in China is better than everywhere else.

do people realize that races have no based in biology? there is only one race, that's human race. i do not think there is much different between different nationality, i am just different. i don't like how people say, it will work in U.S, not in China, it only works in China, not in Canada.

we have to accept that different people have different choice, don't make one voice like what they do in some countries... i would rather have personal choice than others told me what to do.




Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Astroboy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are now in China and that says a lot. There
> > are millions more like u beating a path to
> China
> > and hoping to bask in its economic glory. I
> know
> > the truth hurts but u just have to accept it.
>
> If millions are beating a path here, where are
> they? It's INCREDIBLY easy to get into China to
> visit, and once visiting it's easier to become a
> citizen. So why aren't they here? Oh right,
> because you are full of shit.

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kurt,
>
> Thanks for telling me what you like and don't like
> about your country. I have not been to Europe yet
> because I wanted to go places as least like
> America as possible first.
>
> I think I remember reading the news about that
> cartoonist and being shocked because in America,
> everyone is "free game". Presidents, politicians,
> whichever God someone believes in ~ it does not
> matter how rich or powerful someone is, they are
> open to being satirized and mocked. That is one
> thing I like about America - the freedom to do and
> say whatever you want. That doesn't mean you can
> say anything without consequences, for example you
> can be sued if you blatantly lie either for your
> own gain or to try to bring someone else down. At
> the same time, the freedom to say anything is also
> a drawback because there are so many idiots that
> open their mouths and say the worst things. I
> like the convenience of life there. Almost
> everyone has their own car even at a young age and
> getting around is so easy and fast, with a great
> national highway system. It is also great that
> you can live in a small city and enjoy nature,
> uncrowded streets, and plenty of wildlife but at
> the same time enjoy the benefits (businesses and
> entertainment) of a big city. I like the fact
> that in America, you can find almost any sport in
> the world and people to play it with (there are a
> few like cricket for example that are hard to
> find) and the same with food. Chinese, Japanese,
> German, French, Spanish, Italian - any type of
> food you want, there is usually a place within a
> few miles where you can order some or buy what you
> need to make it yourself. I guess overall I like
> the consistent standard of living no matter the
> size of the city (actually in America the smaller
> cities are often much better than the large ones)
> and the fact that you can find any type of food or
> entertainment from all around the world easily.
> The variety of "things to do" anywhere you go is
> incredible, and I feel fortunate to have grown up
> there. Things I don't like include the low level
> of education and refinement that exists in the
> general public, the priorities of society, the
> welfare system, and the "me first" mentality.

Low level education in USA?Maybe that's because you were studied in a school which was not that good,it has nothing to do with general american education.chinese education,guess,you wouldn't liked it if you studied in chinese school.
refinement?can you explain it to me in detail?I can't understand it.did you mean you hate how polite american people are?
what is the priorities of your society?
the welfare system sucks in USA,but much much better than China untill nowadays.
the "me first"mentality is as epidemic as well in China.it's more about cocky attitude in USA,but in China,it's more about bloody cold unconcern to people who aren't their family memebers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 10:17PM by Kurt.

Kurt - First, let me say that I was not comparing the USA to China; I was not saying in which areas it is better or worse. True, compared to China many of the things I mentioned are not worth mentioning. However, I was looking at America and evaluating it on its own - not compared to any other country, only based on my lifetime there. You might have visited in the past? Not sure. But it is where I lived for the first 30 years of my life, and I lived in many different places with many different types of people. A few notes from my experiences and knowledge:
Education - If one wants to, they can get one of the best educations in the world in America, however I was referring to the general population. Do you know many Americans graduate from high school yet have terrible English skills and poor knowledge of history, geography, science, etc...? Go read the posts sometimes from people born and raised in America - you can see the embarrassingly low level of English, not just in technical areas but word usage, vocabulary, etc. Terrible in general.
Refinement - I was referring to the lack of refinement. There is a word "class", or maybe sophistication is better, and in America this is sadly lacking. Go take a look at what the most popular TV shows are, read some of the statistics about what else is popular with the masses, and spend some time hanging around a Wal-mart or walking downtown in a big city. If you meet a lot of Americans while traveling or visiting another country, many of them will be polite, but that is just their public face or because they are happy to be gone from the USA and trying to make a good impression...or if you are a girl they are trying to pick you up. See what they do back in the US or when no one is watching and you will understand better.
Priorities? Money, consumption, the easy way out, trying to be cool, sex, and definitely "me first". You know in America, many people are so selfish they will take care of themselves before there own children even, and will stab each other in the back to get what they want time and time again, only feeling bad (maybe) if they get caught. People will use whatever they can to get ahead, greedy to the point that even if it is bad for their family, their friends, or their country, they will do it if good for them. Financial responsibility is terrible - do you know how many people "bought" a house several years ago and just stopped paying their loan for it for various reasons (anger at government, lost job, spend money on other things) yet continue to live in that house and have no guilty feelings about what they are doing?
The welfare system is actually TOO good to people who don't deserve it. Many single women will have as many babies as they can with different men, no love involved, just so they can get money from the government. One reason the unemployment is so high? Because the money people get from the government while unemployed is in some cases equal to or higher than if they were working, so they choose to just take the money while doing nothing instead. If you are an illegal immigrant in America? No problem - go get some free food, housing, and hospital care. America is killing itself by making a shrinking number of productive people pay for a growing number of people who don't contribute to the country. I used to say often that "I love the lifestyle I can have in America, I just hate the people who live there." Two things - yes, I AM an American, born and raised, and I have no problem telling the truth about other Americans or what is wrong with my country. Second - I am speaking in generalities. There ARE some great people in America, and in some cases, what I have described is a minority. Of course, that is another problem. In America, even though it is supposed to be a democracy, so many times it is the minority that is taken care of and listened to, not the majority. In America, one bad apple CAN and often does spoil the whole bunch!

Cindy Zhou - Thanks for your answer! It shed some light on your experience with "I love China" being a conditioned and learned, but perhaps not understood or truly meant, response after years of being told that is what is right. That really helps me understand why so many Chinese tell me they love their country, but cannot explain what it is they love so much or why they are so happy to leave. I really liked the second part of your answer! You mentioned so many specific and tangible things that you love about China, and also something you don't and that was great! You know what? Aside from the scenery you mentioned, you can go to other parts of the world and still have the food, the language, the poems, etc...so my hope for you is that if you WANT to, you will get a chance to live at least for a few months or a year outside of China. Doing that, you will have the thrill of learning about the outside world and also will learn to look at your own country in new ways, maybe with a greater desire similar to what Astroboy describes after being away.

Kez5 - I suggest that you actually live in another country, at least for 1 or 2 full years, before deciding if you love it or not. Any country. Not just China, but any country you might love. Your own experience (guessing that is where you were raised?) in America should be a lesson - so many around the world think they would love it but have never lived there, and you seem to be sending the message you'd rather be somewhere else. Sorry about the brainwashing. I know it exists in some different forms, but I feel that in our universities and through popular culture we are all taught to think for ourselves, be critical of the world in which we live, and make our own decisions. I don't think brainwashing exists at levels that can overcome the average American's ability to make up his or her own mind. One reason we are so free to leave America and travel the world is because the government has no fear about us learning what life is like in other parts of the world. So - if you think you might love another country, my advice is to go live there and see what it is really like - good luck and have fun.

Astroboy - Come on! I was also speaking up for China at least a little bit! In fact, as you did I too referenced the "diversity" and "geographical mass" as two great characteristics about China. I have said before there are many reasons I like China. I appreciated your answer - thanks. The first part of your response was good too and maybe it lies at the heart of my original question. Like you, in all of the places I have lived, I have found that all "have their pros and cons", including America. THAT is one of the reasons I posed the question in the first place. I have yet to find a country that I can honestly say I "love". I can say I love some people there, or I love a certain part of it, or I loved my time living there, but I just don't quite "get" what it means, or rather how easily some people will claim, to "love" a country...especially to hear it so often without being supported by rational reasons. Loving people, loving pets, loving pizza, loving sex, loving sports, loving a warm shower in the winter, I get all these things. But loving a country? Hmmm.....

xietingfeng,I want to know which state and which country or even city were you from of USA.And how many places of USA you have had lived.

go check this [www.chinese-tools.com] and judge american people again,xietingfeng

I agreed with a lot of what you said but...

Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The welfare system is actually TOO good to people
> who don't deserve it. Many single women will have
> as many babies as they can with different men, no
> love involved, just so they can get money from the
> government.

That almost never happens. The welfare system is not TOO good. It's shit. The US's welfare system is the joke of the developed world. Poor people get stuck on the welfare system because it's shit and it's very hard to get off of once you are on it. I have a feeling Americans just have no idea what a good welfare system is actually suppose to do...

> One reason the unemployment is so
> high? Because the money people get from the
> government while unemployed is in some cases equal
> to or higher than if they were working, so they
> choose to just take the money while doing nothing
> instead.

No they don't. Welfare does not give as much as a regular job does it gives subsistence pay that ensures no one ever gets off it. If you want people off welfare you need to give them the chance to get educated and learn a skill so they can get a good job. yes some people are lazy but the vast majority on welfare are not enjoying it.

> If you are an illegal immigrant in
> America? No problem - go get some free food,
> housing, and hospital care.

No you can't. Illegal immigrants are not allowed to do this as they are illegal. They are not allowed to be on welfare, get food stamps or apply for health care. if they do they are doing it illegally and if caught they will be sent out of the country.

> In America,
> even though it is supposed to be a democracy, so
> many times it is the minority that is taken care
> of and listened to, not the majority.

No it's not. The majority rules, just the majority sometimes wants to help the minority get an even playing field in life. Seriously, look at the USA, the Whites own everything, it took an entire financial collapse and 8 years of George Bush Jr just to have them even consider a Black man.

>It's ridiculous to say I am indulging in porn all day along,I had 19 sexual partners when I was in China,those chinese girls come to me on their own initiative,and one of them were married.Dtuches aren't weak,we have tallest average height in the world and we look strong,just too many liberals like Uberche.

Do you know that Chinese girls are very curious about novel and extraordinary things? You can understand that just by looking at the food we eat. Some foreigners say Chinese people eat everything. That's partly true. We do like to taste all kinds of exotic food. Some resturants serve insects and exotic wildlife, like baby mice, snakes and frogs. Believe it or not, I have eaten fried locusts, fried crickets, cocoons(both boiled and fried) and worms. They may look a bit disgusting, but they are extremely delicious and nutritious. I strongly suggest you guys(vegetarian excluded) to try those things in Chinese restaurants. To return to the topic, Since you are tall and strong and so liberal and come from a sex liberated country which advocates pornography, those girls must secretly wonder whether you are a great f**k or not. So no wonder so many girls came to you on their own initiative. You know sometimes once curiosity is aroused, it could be very hard to suppress it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2010 06:24AM by Cindy.Zhou.

>I'd like you to back that up by why you think it's the most complicated and yet most ingenius. If it was ingenius it wouldn't be so complicated. An ingenius language would be one that is good at expressing everything but still isn't hard to learn so that people could easily learn your language and take part in your knowledge. An ingenius language wouldn't have a million different dialects that make even communicating with your own country's people very difficult. Chinese is a nice language, but it's far from ingenius.

It's true most Chinese characters contain many strokes and make it very hard for foreigners to learn. But the Chinese language has the best redundancy. In a modern society, all industries and trades have their own jargons and special terms. And the number of those jargons and special terms continues to grow at a neck-breaking speed. In English there are 26 letters, you can use permutation and combination method in maths to calculate how many more words can be created without adding new letters and borrowing new syllables from other languages. In one word, it's very hard for the English language to expand. In some fields like medicine and chemistry, there are many special terms containing more than 20 letters and 10 syllables. For example, shoulder Periarthritis, in Chinese, that's jian zhou yan, it only contain three syllables. If the technology continues to develop at the current speed, it will pose a considerable challenge for the English language to keep up with its pace. But for Chinese, with different tones(Mandarin has four different tones, some southern dialects even contain eight or nine tones) and thousands of characters, you can easily create millions of new words without making them too long or too difficult to learn.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2010 06:57AM by Cindy.Zhou.

>Cindy Zhou - Thanks for your answer! It shed some light on your experience with "I love China" being a conditioned and learned, but perhaps not understood or truly meant, response after years of being told that is what is right. That really helps me understand why so many Chinese tell me they love their country, but cannot explain what it is they love so much or why they are so happy to leave. I really liked the second part of your answer! You mentioned so many specific and tangible things that you love about China, and also something you don't and that was great! You know what? Aside from the scenery you mentioned, you can go to other parts of the world and still have the food, the language, the poems, etc...so my hope for you is that if you WANT to, you will get a chance to live at least for a few months or a year outside of China. Doing that, you will have the thrill of learning about the outside world and also will learn to look at your own country in new ways, maybe with a greater desire similar to what Astroboy describes after being away.

Yes. I would like to live in other countries for one or two years. I even thought of applying for a scholarship in a Singaporean university, but later I thought better of it. My reason is very practical. Overseas returnees with master or Ph.D. degrees, due to their sheer and continuously increasing number, have began to lose their competity in China's home job market. More and more overseas graduates return to China after graduation simply because it's too hard to find a job in western countries, not due to patriotism, but due to the harsh reality in foreign countries.

I know in north America and Europe, you can still enjoy great Chinese food and beautiful sceneries. But the problem is the prices are much more expensive, they are not affordable for many middle-class Chinese. Travelling abroad once or twice is okay. but if you want to live there for a longer period, you have to find a well-paid job there in the first place. I myself is a pretty lazy person. I would rather stay in my home country, have a decent job and live on my modest salary instead of looking for greener pastures abroad at the expense of losing everything I have now. One bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Better treasure what you have now.

Actually, I am pretty contented with the living standard here in China. With Renminbi's exchange rate continuously rising against major foreign currencies, I find some foreign brands become more and more affordable. For food and clothing, I usually choose those Chinese brands. But all my skin care products are foreign brands. To be exact, they are products made by joint ventures. I once used imported skin care products, the jars and bottles they used are slightly larger and there aren't any Chinese characters printed on the bottles, but the cream inside and the formulas they printed in the instructions are exactly the same. The only difference is the imported ones are five times more expensive. After that, I only stick with products made by joint venture companies in China.

I have lived in the US and I can agree 100% with what Xietingfeng said about the country. Many high school graduates, especially those from schools in black ghettoes, cannot speak proper English. They have their own rap culture & language which is understood only among themselves.

The welfare system promotes a crutch mentality and is causing the downfall for many countries in the west. That is why a lot of Asian countries do not adopt the welfare system despite western criticisms. Our system is simple - you work, you eat. There are no free handouts.

Canuck appears to me like a kid enamored with all things western. Still struggling with English and trying too hard to fit in. Sure, in the west they uphold "individual rights" but it's really an illusion. The secret service (FBI, CIA etc) has been killing people for years and put many behind bars on trumped up charges. During WWII, Japanese-Americans were rounded up and put in internment camps. I can imagine, hypothetically if war breaks out between Canada-China, folks like Canuck would be the first to be rounded up and imprisoned.

For me, society rights should take priority over individual rights - if that is communist thinking, hell, I am all for it. One of the reasons why US is not on my list of countries to live in - is the thought that some lunatic can gun me down in the streets anytime, thanks to "individual rights" to gun ownership.

I also agree about the lack of refinement - eg on this forum is Uberche. He cannot sustain an argument or debate on an intellectual level without resorting to shit-slinging (not that it bothers me much). Folks like Kurt, I can understand because he are still struggling with English.


Xietingfeng Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kurt - First, let me say that I was not comparing
> the USA to China; I was not saying in which areas
> it is better or worse. True, compared to China
> many of the things I mentioned are not worth
> mentioning. ....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2010 08:40AM by Astroboy.

Uberche -

In my opinion, the unemployment benefits, welfare, free health care for the poor, etc...ARE too good. What I mean is that in America, many people can sit on their butts all day long, doing nothing but drinking beer and watching TV...they have enough money for a car, a house, and food, all without having a job! In America, survival of the fittest has no place, and the reason there are so many unmotivated, fat, and lazy Americans is because anyone can live a comfortable (compared to most of the world) life off the welfare system. And there are several examples of someone making more from unemployment payments than if they had a low-paying job, which is at least a job that contributes something to their health and society. I do agree with you, it is not "good" in the sense that it does what it is supposed to - it fails miserably in that regard. When I said it was too good, I meant that it allows people who contribute nothing to society to live a decent life. As far as the illegal immigrants - I will try to do some research when I have time so I can present some real facts and statistics, but trust me, there are countless examples of illegal immigrants being fed, clothed, houses, and given medical attention in the US. I knew of some stories personally. As far as the minority rules, we could argue about that endlessly. I meant it in the sense that if 1% of people do not want Christmas carols to be sung in schools, that 1% will often get their way. If 1% of the population is too fat to fit in a standard airplane seat, the whole airline industry has to change to accommodate that. A large number of new laws and regulations that are passed are to cater to a very very small percentage of the population which often comes at the cost of the larger. I'd also add that in America, you are right, the rich white man does rule....and do you know what percentage of the American population controls what percentage of wealth and power...a very large minority, I guarantee it.