View recent posts | Search | Navigate:
Forums > General Forum > Do East-Asians think differently?

New Topic
Goto Page: 123Next
Current Page: 1 of 3
Goto Thread: PreviousNext
Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 16, 2009 01:40PM
I just got a copy of The East-West Dichotomy http://www.east-west-dichotomy.com and its crazy stuff, like I know that East-Asians are pretty smart and diligent, and that indivualism vs. collectivism and Western masculinity and Eastern feminity thing going on... But do you really believe that East-Asians think differently, like more holistic and intuitive (instead of linear and analytical)?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 09:41PM by Thepsychologist.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 16, 2009 11:11PM
yes,east asian's mind lack logic and analytical,we don't have philosophy like western philosophy which full of linear and logical inference.
but you talk about east asian are smart and diligent,I don't think so,I think it depend on individual,this is just a stupid generality.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 17, 2009 02:18PM
Well, it mostly generalizations, these statements do not apply to individuals. Only to very large groups on average.

I still think, however, that on average East-Asians are smarter than on average Westerners. In postgraduate courses throughout the US, we have 20% East-Asians, while they only make up 3% of our population. Also, their SAT scores are much higher. In Europe, same findings. The PISA studies found out that East-Asians in European classrooms perform on average better than their French, British or German counterparts. So, I do think they are kind of smarter in doing these tests better, whatever this tests means (IQ? Attitude?) I am not sure.

In Physiology, I read that the on average volume of the brain of the Japanese, despite their relative small body stature, is some 5% larger than on average Westerners.

Westerners dont want to hear this, that they are not on average the smartest, because of the bad memories of their past discriminations against other races. However, I think that we all have different strengths and weaknesses and the East-Asians should be proud of being on average smarter than on average white Americans or Europeans. Anyway, it did not help them much first. Intelligence makes more peaceful. Brutal and ruthless imperialism, science, and colonialism thus smashed them. Sadly.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 12:20AM
you are stupid,USA and other western countries only allow excellent skilled and educated asians became american citizen and their citizen,not asian trash and ordinary persons,that's why you can see so many excellent asians in west,because they are skilled and educated immigrants and offspring of them.and another reason is asian parents always put huge pressure on their kids of study,not like western parents.if you go to asia,you would find various asians just like you seen various american in USA.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 12:26AM
and volume of the brain isn't a important factor of intelligence leavel among same species.if volume is important,whale and elephant is most clever type,not human being.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 02:34AM
I am not stupid. Head and brainsizes (in relation to the body size) do matter, just imagine we had only half the volume from what we humans have now. We would be less advanced than neanderthalers were at their heydays. But of course, on average 5% differences in brainsizes do not matter a lot among human species, and to the individual it doesn't matter at all, because the chemical brain is formable and trainable, and because of so many other internal and external factors that determine success in life.

But just as a white is unlikely to win the 100m track&field olympic medal, so a white man is unlikekly to win the gold medal in any maths olympics. Fact. Did you know that in Europe they don't even invite East-Asian countries to minor competitions, if they can avoid them, because they will lose on every occasion against Korean, Japanese, or Chinese guests from their countries.

You say, East-Asian parents push their children. Well, intelligent white and black parents do the same. Go to the American white elite and you will find their children are pushed to the limits: piano, language lessons, sports, home teaching. In fact, the pressure on children to compete with their peers all around the globe is immense. However, if someone in the West is diligent, we call him a swot. In East-Asia that is the norm and standard. If parents push their children in the West, that is intelligent strategy. If East-Asians do that, it is just the norm and standard for them. Nothing special, they believe.

If you don't get over it, just check any source in the web for IQ tables and group differences. You will find that East-Asians are at the top. And don't think that scientists are so stupid as to measure on American soil only (with all the bright immigrants). They do go to China and Japan and Korea etc. and measure there, too.

That is what I mean when saying that on average East-Asians are smarter than
on average American or European pupils.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Uberche (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 06:52AM
haha you and Kurt should hook up, would be fun to watch...

Anyway yeah you're partly right and partly wrong. Chinese do better in some subjects, like Math and Sciences because they are very good at memorizing, however when creativity is brought in to the fun Chinese don't do very well because their schools do not teach these things.

What you should say, instead of they are smarter, is that they study harder and go to school more.

Quote:
In Physiology, I read that the on average volume of the brain of the Japanese, despite their relative small body stature, is some 5% larger than on average Westerners.

You're pretending that average volume says something, it's not average volume that does, scientists think it's the size and shape of certain AREAS of the brain. As well can you provide some proof of your claim about Japanese brains? I've never seen that proven before.

Quote:
Anyway, it did not help them much first. Intelligence makes more peaceful. Brutal and ruthless imperialism, science, and colonialism thus smashed them. Sadly.

China's history is FULL of war and infighting. Just because lately they lose a lot doesn't mean they are peaceful.

Quote:
Westerners dont want to hear this, that they are not on average the smartest, because of the bad memories of their past discriminations against other races

hahah no Westerners don't want to hear this because it's faulty logic and only half the picture.

Quote:
Well, intelligent white and black parents do the same. Go to the American white elite and you will find their children are pushed to the limits: piano, language lessons, sports, home teaching. In fact, the pressure on children to compete with their peers all around the globe is immense.

Yes but in the west most parents push their children in a wide variety of fields including art, sports, study and others. In East Asia most parents focus on study.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 08:16AM
Thepsychologist,may I ask you where you from?are you from Silicon Valley,if you are from there,no wonder you think east asians are clever,you should been sent to countryside places in china,then you will know what you are talking about is very ridiculous.or maybe you are an asian american which your black and white counterpart bullied you a lot,therefore result in you have a perfect and unrealistic image of your original place's people.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Canuck (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 12:58PM
ok. i am being a teacher student, i hate the idea of teaching student how to memorize shit. Because if they can achieve high grade of my course because couple of days of study and memorization, which means they will forget them in a week.

Why you think we are able to use 1+1=2, because we use it that frequently and you know we Canada here ,does not teach kids to memorize it, rather show them toys….or play sticks.

I would rather teach them how to use a skill. I have to admit Chinese school system teaches kids good foundation of math, chem, phys, school system does not allow student to be creative. That’s different from west here, we are more liberal here in Canada.


I think our problem of Chinese students are less collaboration between each other, because of competition of China, kids do not want to share ideas and do group work I think. not like here, I will be more than happy to do group work with hot blondes…lol..

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 03:33PM
Well, I probably have give in to Kurt's comments. I have not been to the countryside of China. And even in Beijing and Shanghai are places where people are poor and uneducated. Most Chinese people I know are well educated and smart, so naturally I gues I am biased.

To the comment by Canuck, it seems that Chinese do have different techniques of studying that the West. Like memorization and rote learning, repititon, reading aloud (lang-du) etc. but are not very creative when it comes to produce new ideas.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Canuck (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2009 10:52PM
however, i do have to appreciate what i have learned in China about math, science skills, actually English too... pretty much i learn all my English back in China by myself from TV.

you will actually surprise, back in Shenzhen in 80s, ABC, CBS, FOX are available widely by blackmarket sat. so it was not as strict as nowadays. I remember when I was little boy, I saw June 4th in front of my TV, saw PLA shoot highschool kids by machine gun. After that pretty much give up commie ideas….even I was little.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 19, 2009 01:25AM
Hahaha! Good old memories, right?! smiling smiley Shenzhen in the 80s must have been the total industrial revolution, it was the first city to be opened toward new ideas and total capitalism and even today is one of the richest regions in China.

I heard the saying that in Shenzhen, Guangdong, and Hong Kong, this three-city-delta, Chinese business people throw money to the left and to the right.

So you learned in China about math, science etc.? That is a good thing. The Chinese education system is one of the best and oldest in the world (dating back to the Imperial examinations). Bertrand Russeel in his famous book "The Problem of China" mentions that he noticed the incredible benefits of such a system based on meritocracy (in contrast to the West till today, where 'class and creed' leads to top universities) - he was amazed at the 'brain power' surrounding him. His Chinese host all spoke fluent English although none of them ever went abroad. They all had heard about Continental philosophy (Goethe, Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche) and Empirical philosophy (Locke, Berkeley, Hume), knew a lot about America, while Western people knew nothing about China. His students picked up Western thought and science very quickly, and impressed Russell with their diligence, dedication and memory. That's why he famously made the prediction that: "China has the power to superseed all the European powers combined" (http://www.east-west-dichotomy.com/east_west_dichotomy_ii.html)

Today, in Britain and the US lacks mathematicians and physisists. One professor told me "it is too hard to study, and the vast majority of our students doesn' t want to take it up any more. People feel intimidated by East-Asian students, who rule in this disciplines."

It seems you just can't come out top of the class anymore if there are Chinese students in the classroom too, hahaha. cool smiley

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Canuck (IP Logged)
Date: September 19, 2009 03:41PM
yes, i recalled i used internet back in 1996 when i was still early teen....
most of people have never heard of internet until late 90s here in rural part of western canada.

2002, when i came to Canada, i told people i use "social networking" BBS (old school facebook) at some U.S colleges, we post shit everyday there. a lot of people have never heard social network here...

Ok, we Chinese has leaded word’s technology for thousands years, just recent 500 years, we have left behind.

Chinese fall asleep, while westerners surpassed us.
However, I think newer generation of Chinese students here in Canada are not too self-discipline.

I guess because their parents are rich or whatever, they drive Mercedes to colleges and stay in casino, that’s crazy shit. I barely have money left after paying my mortgage…
Some Chinese students laugh at older students like me, because we ride bicycle to college, no bimmer, just drive ugly pickup.
somme even showed up how their parents can do whatever in China, so what?


You know? Where is our thrifty, hard working attitude. I hate people show off, especially our Chinese, this is not traditional Chinese value.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Uberche (IP Logged)
Date: September 19, 2009 11:28PM
Thepsychologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you learned in China about math, science etc.?
> That is a good thing. The Chinese education system
> is one of the best and oldest in the world (dating
> back to the Imperial examinations).

Bullshit. Chinese education may be one of the oldest and it may have at one time been very great but today Chinese education is terrible. Students are taught to memorize, not to learn. I have a friend who taught Chinese exchange students in Australia, many of the students would never even come to class, they'd stay home and just memorize the information in the text books. Yeah they did very well on exams but that's not education, that's memorization.
China teaches it's people to memorize what they are told. A good example of this is talking to Chinese people in English, I can't count the number of times some Chinese student has told me they want to chat with me and when I say yes they say something like "I like Nokia, do you know the history of Nokia? No? Well..." and then they tell me the entire history of Nokia (he talked for 25 minutes about Nokia, never letting me say anything), why? Because they aren't taught how to have a conversation instead they are taught how to recite facts and it's incredibly boring.
Even the Chinese government has admitted this fact. That's why they are trying to reform Chinese education, or at least they were suppose to be though I don't see much happening anymore.
Why are Chinese students SO good at Written English and so terrible at Oral English? Because Written English is based on set laws and rules that you can memorize, Oral English is flowing and needs creativity to make it sound normal. Why when I give students an assignment to do a role play do I end up with only 1 or 2 groups that actually are interesting and 7 or 8 groups that are identical and make me want to sleep?

You need to lose your arrogance about education in China, yeah it's good at Math and Sciences but it sucks at anything requiring Creativity and independent thought. China's Research and Developement has always lagged behind the West's because they don't teach their people to be creative.

It's slowly changing but very slowly and any time spent as a teacher in a Chinese school will very quickly let you see just how "great" Chinese education is at this time.

To put it simply, what's the first thing every student in China that does good in school does to get a good Master's or PhD? Go to a Western school. Where are your leader's children educated? The West.

> Bertrand
> Russeel in his famous book "The Problem of China"
> mentions that he noticed the incredible benefits
> of such a system based on meritocracy (in contrast
> to the West till today, where 'class and creed'
> leads to top universities)

He was either lied to, shown only what the governemnt wanted to show him or he's an idiot. China's schools are just as much based on Class and Creed as the West if not more. Why is it that 95% of my students come from Cities and have parents who range from Upper Middle Class to Upper Class? Because to go to a good school you either need to be in the VERY top of your class or have guanxi. China's education, much like it's business environment is based on Guanxi for the most part. I know a number of students who were caught cheating in last years exams at my school who had no punishment, and surprise surprise, their parents were rich and well connected.
I think you need to learn a little more about your own education system.
It's a very well known thing that some of the rich and powerful, especially government members, children get into high Universities using classmates test scores, just this year their was a big scandal about this in China.

> His Chinese host
> all spoke fluent English although none of them
> ever went abroad.

This had to have been a formal visit with government supplied hosts than because I have taught English students in Nanjing and Beijing and have friends teaching all over China and not only are Chinese students almost never fluent in English Chinese English teachers are also almost never fluent. The teachers at my school now (second best Economics University in China) have terrible English, they still constantly mistake He and She, they can't pronounce "Usually" if their life depended on it and their ability to follow a native English speaker is quite terrible. I've talked to teachers from Bei Da, Ren Min, QingHua and Beijing ShiFan and their teachers are a little better but still about the same. In my 6 years in China I've met about 20 people who have honestly fluent English and 6 of them have never been abroad, of those 6, 3 of them never went to University, they learned on their own by talking to Foreigners.

> They all had heard about
> Continental philosophy (Goethe, Kant, Hegel,
> Nietzsche) and Empirical philosophy (Locke,
> Berkeley, Hume), knew a lot about America, while
> Western people knew nothing about China.

Chinese know a lot about America because they watch TV and movies from the US. Americans don't watch Chinese tv and very few Chinese movies so they know very little. Plus I've had a great many Chinese try to correct me about Western Culture because they "saw it on TV". TV and Movies lie a lot. Many of my students now are shocked when i tell them normal people don't live like the people on Gossip Girl.

You seriously need to get your arrogance and ignorance under control. China's education has some major problems as does the West's education, Both are good at some aspects while failing in others. IQ tests are a good measurement of some aspects of intelligence but it's been admitted many times that they are heavily biased towards those who are good at memorization, which I agree Asians are taught to be VERY good at memorizing things. But this does not make them smarter in the real sense of the word, it just means they study a lot and are very well trained.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 20, 2009 02:10AM
So, you agree that they think different then? From you for example.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Uberche (IP Logged)
Date: September 20, 2009 06:54AM
Thepsychologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, you agree that they think different then? From
> you for example.

Yes and No. Anyone growing up in a different culture or home life will think differently. however you can't simply say East Asians think differently because Many East Asians also think differently from other East Asians, and some think very similarly to Westerners. I had one girlfriend who loved going to the bars and partying and I've had one here who stayed home and thought only bad girls go to bars.

In general terms, the average East Asian thinks differently than the Average Westerner though, yes. Our cultures are quite different and we attach importance to different things. Conformity vs Individuality for example.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 20, 2009 04:02PM
Richard Nisbett wrote this book: The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently.

According to this book, Nisbett made several experiments and found out that Asian collective and interdependent nature also goes along with their broad and contextual view of the world.

Here is the point: It does not change even after they migrated to the US and were "assimiliated" by American culture. It is not only culture, it is like a natural reflex that needs a lot of conditioning and two or three generations to disappear, fat chance they do.

Anyway, it seems to help East-Asians in the academia to stay at the top of the pyramid.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Uberche (IP Logged)
Date: September 20, 2009 11:09PM
Thepsychologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the point: It does not change even after
> they migrated to the US and were "assimiliated" by
> American culture. It is not only culture, it is
> like a natural reflex that needs a lot of
> conditioning and two or three generations to
> disappear, fat chance they do.

Of course it's culture, it takes a couple generations to disappear because of family. Chinese listen to their family and do what their mothers and fathers say, if they don't they get huge guilt trips. "You don't want to marry?!? But We need a grandchild, we did so much for growing up and worked so hard and no you wont do this for me blah blah blah". I have never seen parents so happy to use guilt to make their child do what they want before...

When the first generation of kids grow up they do it less because their original Chinese culture is being mixed with the culture of where ever they are living. By the second or third generation the original Chinese culture is mostly gone.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Canuck (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 12:41AM
my mom told me i should not date white girls and have children with them, but i didn't listen to them.....

i have never told my mom shit like i ever smoke weed, go to gay bar.. then they will be mad..

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 01:17AM
Uberche wrote:

>if they don't they get huge guilt trips. ..We did so much for you, worked so hard, and now you wont do this for me blah blah

THIS is sooooo true! Seriously! And I am so annoyed by this filial piety thing!!!

I have heard and seen that so many times with my Chinese co-workers (they are 25+ years), and, worse, with my Chinese girlfriend(s). Basically, they would "produce" children for their grandparents to raise them. That is a matter of filial piety in China. For a Western person that means you need to be very assertive and almost emotional abusive to her parents, otherwise you will never see your own child again.

Most Western teenagers get that "I am an individual" thing early in life and, if the parents won't accept you, it crashes. But that is a good thing.

Never happens in China. Disagreeing with one's parents? Impossible! Never! That is rude and disrespectful. They rather do not speak or tell a word to their parents!

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 02:46AM
Thepsychologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you learned in China about math, science etc.?
> That is a good thing. The Chinese education system
> is one of the best and oldest in the world (dating
> back to the Imperial examinations). Bertrand
> Russeel in his famous book "The Problem of China"
> mentions that he noticed the incredible benefits
> of such a system based on meritocracy (in contrast
> to the West till today, where 'class and creed'
> leads to top universities) - he was amazed at the
> 'brain power' surrounding him. His Chinese host
> all spoke fluent English although none of them
> ever went abroad. They all had heard about
> Continental philosophy (Goethe, Kant, Hegel,
> Nietzsche) and Empirical philosophy (Locke,
> Berkeley, Hume), knew a lot about America, while
> Western people knew nothing about China. His
> students picked up Western thought and science
> very quickly, and impressed Russell with their
> diligence, dedication and memory. That's why he
> famously made the prediction that: "China has the
> power to superseed all the European powers
> combined"
> (http://www.east-west-dichotomy.com/east_west_dich
> otomy_ii.html)
>
> Today, in Britain and the US lacks mathematicians
> and physisists. One professor told me "it is too
> hard to study, and the vast majority of our
> students doesn' t want to take it up any more.
> People feel intimidated by East-Asian students,
> who rule in this disciplines."
>
> It seems you just can't come out top of the class
> anymore if there are Chinese students in the
> classroom too, hahaha. cool smiley


You will be very happy and feel like live in paradise if you send yourself to countryside china and live with chinese hicks.because there keeps more chinese tradition.it's your fairyland,go to there,my friend,you will be happy all your life.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 04:23AM
Dude, you must have great experiences from the countryside. I never went outside the big cities. sad smiley

How is education in the countryside? Do they still have communist style propaganda and mass (group) activities?

I have a friend in Wulumuqi (Xinjiang) who said that they actually have big universities there, too, and lots of smaller colleges and schools. They must have eduaction there. Communist countries were famous for their drills.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 08:22AM
The typical chinese hicks don't have consciousness of law and statute,rough and brutal force,fight,quarrel,affray are the way they resolve issue and conflict with others,they never think aboutgo to court.they don't have civilized,clean living habit in general,and have no idea of proper decency,manner,they have only three way for treating people,one is passion,second is cold and don't care you,three is rude to you.many gangsters in china cities are from countryside.the hicks are noisy,and they have no idea of their noise would annoy others,also they speaking loudly in general,but anyway,as a nationality,overall,chinese speak louder than westerners.hicks despise courtlike,decorous behavior.studious bookish countryside students only know two things,one is content of textbook,another is their countryside life,they don;t know any other things any more.tey keep theiur home clean,but mess up public place.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Uberche (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2009 11:43AM
Thepsychologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have heard and seen that so many times with my
> Chinese co-workers (they are 25+ years), and,
> worse, with my Chinese girlfriend(s). Basically,
> they would "produce" children for their
> grandparents to raise them. That is a matter of
> filial piety in China. For a Western person that
> means you need to be very assertive and almost
> emotional abusive to her parents, otherwise you
> will never see your own child again.

Yeah if I have a child with a Chinese girl I'd have to have some very serious ground rules about it first. No "Chinese Way" with the pregnancy or raising of my child. If you want to help that's great but it's my and my wife's way or get the fuck out... Chinese mother's are confined to the bed and aren't suppose to wash or move or do anything for a couple months after pregnancy, that can't be good for you... A lot of weird rules.

OH! And NO pants with holes in the ass so you can piss and shit on the street... I had one Chinese old lady tell me that if they wear diapers the baby's bum wont be soft or healthy... craziness... diapers are made to not chafe the skin...

> Never happens in China. Disagreeing with one's
> parents? Impossible! Never! That is rude and
> disrespectful. They rather do not speak or tell a
> word to their parents!

Yeah My students love to complain to me about their parents. Of course in the west we have our own problems as western parents are sometimes way too easy going and don't do enough... Need a happy mix of the two cultures I think..

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Xixifusi (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 01:22AM
it's really hard to say how east-asians think. that's just too complicated even to generalize one person, there's no way to say how they think in general because they're just different.

but I understand what're you wondering. you can get a feeling of how they think from talking with them a couple of times...etc, but when you know more and more of them and deeper and deeper, you will see there're lots of differences between individuals.

anyway I don't think east-asians are bad at logic and analysis. you can see lots of them are doing great in maths and all sorts of science subjects; and logic and analysis are probably the most essential to do with this...

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 01:33AM
I would say east-asians lack of lofic and analysis in their thinking,doing math great just because the shitty education focuse on it a lot than west,when it comes to create,chinese is much worse than westeners.

在美国人亚瑟·亨·史密斯所著的《中国人的性格》一书中,共列举中国人的个性有27项之多:保全面子、节俭持家、勤劳刻苦、讲究礼貌、漠视时间、漠视精确、易于误解、拐弯抹角、顺而不从、思绪含混、不紧不慢、轻视外族、缺乏公心、因循守旧、随遇而安、顽强生存、能忍且韧、知足常乐、孝悌为先、仁爱之心、缺乏同情、社会风波、株连守法、相互猜疑、缺乏诚信、多元信仰、中国的现实与时务。

自从那位喜欢说大话的威尼斯商人在热那亚监狱里口述了一本游记,700年间西方探险家,传教士、商人,水手、政客、学者,形形色色的人写过各种各样的关于中国的报道。有写实,有虚构;有不着边际的赞美,也有不怀好意的污蔑。在这难以计数的"中国著述"中,真正有影响的,不过那么几本。例如《马可波罗游记》、《曼德维尔游记》。门多萨的《大中华帝国志》、金尼阁的《基督教远征中国史》、李明的《中国现状新志》,安逊的《世界旅行记》、杜赫德的《中华帝国通志》。阿瑟。史密斯的《中国人的性格》也算是其中之一。《中国人的性格》一书的内容1890年曾在上海的英文版报纸《华北每日新闻》发表,轰动一时;在纽约由弗莱明出版公司结集出版,又被抢购一空。西方人曾从马可-波罗那里听说一个神话般的契丹,在门多萨那里将信将疑地得知一个半传奇、半历史的中华帝国。耶稣会士、启蒙主义哲学家将中国渲染成一个世俗乐园,中国的开明君主,宗教宽容、以及孔夫子的智慧,都曾令西方人困惑、仰慕,感到惭愧。当然,另一一方面,也有很多反面意见。英国海军军官安逊笔下的中国完全是另一番模样,那个民族狡猾、肮脏,中国是个堕落的地方。这类观点在启蒙运动以后越来越有影响。中国究竟怎样呢?有关中国的争议在西方冷寂了一个多世纪以后,史密斯的《中国人的性格》出现了,他试图刻画中国人的性格特征。《中国人的性格》或许是最后一部西方传教士写的、在西方与东方都有影响的有关中国的书。

《中国人的性格》是西方人介绍与研究中同民族性格的最有影响的著作。这位博学、不无善意的传教士力图以公允的态度叙述中国。他有在中国生活22年的经验为他的叙述与评价担保,他看到中国人性格的多个侧面及其本相的暖昧性。他为中国人的性格归纳了20多种特征,有褒有贬,并常能在同一,问题上看到正反两方面的意义。《中国人的性格》在近半个世纪的时间里,不仅影响了西方人、日本人的中国观,甚至对中国现代国民性反思思潮,也有很大影响。张梦阳先生对此曾有过专门研究(见《鲁迅研究资料》, 11,《鲁迅与斯密斯的<中国人气质>》)。

史密斯是位诚实、细心的观察家。读者在阅读中不难发现这一点。然而,诚实与信心并不意味着客观与准确。因为文化与时代的偏见与局限,对于任何一个个人都是无法超越的,尤其是一位生活在100年以前的基督教传教士。西方文化固有的优越感,基督教偏见,都不可避免地影响着史密斯在中国的生活经验和他对中国人与中国文化的印象与见解。基督教普世精神、西方中心主义,构成史密斯观察与叙述中国的既定视野。中国人的性格形象映在异域文化背景上,是否会变得模糊甚至扭曲呢?辜鸿铭说"要懂得真正的中国人和中国文明,那个人必须是深沉的、博大的和淳朴的","比如那个可敬的阿瑟。史密斯先生,他曾著过一本关于中国人特性的书,但他却不了解真正的中国人,因为作为一个美国人,他不够深沉。"(《春秋大义》"序言")

美国传教士眼里的中国人的形象,并不具有权威性。它是一面镜子,有些部分甚至可能成为哈哈镜,然而,问题是,一个美国人不能了解真正的中国人,一个中国人就能了解中国人吗?盲目的自尊与脆弱的自卑,怀念与希望,不断被提醒的挫折感与被误导的自鸣得意,我们能真正地认识我们自己吗?《中国人的性格》已经出版整整l00年了。一本有影响的著作成为一个世纪的话题,谁也绕不开它,即使沉默也是一种反应,辜鸿铭在论著与演说中弘扬"中国人的精神",史密斯的书是他潜在的对话者,回答、解释或反驳,都离不开这个前提。林语堂的《吾国吾民》,其中颇费苦心的描述与小心翼翼的评价,无不让人感到《中国人的性格》的影响。《中国人的性格》已成为一种照临或逼视中国民族性格话语的目光,所有相关叙述,都无法回避。

我们不能盲信史密斯的观察与叙述都是事实,但也不必怀疑其中有事实有道理。读者们可以根据自己的阅读来判断。了解自己既需要反思也需要外观。异域文化的目光是我们理解自己的镜子。临照这面镜子需要坦诚、勇气与明辨的理性。鲁迅先生一直希望有人翻译这本书,在他逝世前14天发表的《"立此存照"(三)》中,先生还提到:"我至今还在希望有人翻译出斯密斯的《支那人气质》来。看了这些,而自省,分析,明白哪几点说的对,变革,挣扎,自做工夫,却不求别人的原谅和称赞,来证明究竟怎样的是中国人。"

论迅评论:这本书是一个传教士所写,因此,不免抬高上帝,而贬低中国各路神圣。虽然中国又过去了这么多年,但是中国人的性格还是没有多大的变化,变的只是衣服与时代。初看这本书时,出版说明提到鲁迅临终前还念念不忘能有人翻译这本书,我还以为是出版商为了销路而自吹的。勉强看了一部分,就知道真的。鲁迅生前一定看过它的英文或日文版,他推荐的没错,中国的确需要一面镜子,不是中国模糊的铜镜,而是外国人的镀银镜。

没有看过此书的人,看看题目就知道不错。当然,你不能说:“我哪有这样?”实际里面说的是大多数中国人的性格,不是个人的。正如很多东西是人民的,个人却没有多少。请不要对座入号,也请对座入号。

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 01:37AM
中国人的性格 摘录:
对残疾人的态度也能说明中国人缺乏同情。中国人一般认为,呆子、瞎子,尤其是独眼龙、聋子、秃子、斗鸡眼都应该避而远之。似乎生理上有缺陷,道德上也一定有缺陷。据我们观察,人们不会对这些人冷酷无情,但总是缺少同情。就像古犹太人认为的,这些人肯定暗中犯了罪,因此才遭到这样的惩罚。相反,西方人会对这种人产生发自内心的同情。

  一个不幸患有残疾的人,无论是先天的还是后天的,不能忍耐嘲讽就不能活下去。对他最温和的方式是描述他的缺陷,以引起众人的注意,药铺的伙计会对一个病人说:“麻子老兄,你是哪村的?”一个斜眼人听到“眼斜心歪”也不足为奇,假如是个秃子,就会听到:“十个秃子有九个是骗子,最后一个如不哑巴,也一样。”这些不幸的人终生都必须逆来顺受,只有当他听到长年不断的嘲弄而不再根怒时,才能够安于生活。

  对精神有问题的人,中国人同样坦率得过分。旁观者会说:“这孩子是个笨蛋!”可实际上,他也许并不笨。不断地重复说他不长脑子,很容易摧残他未发育完全的智力。以这种方式对待精神病患者或者其他病人,也十分普遍。也许恰恰就是这种方式导致了疾病的产生,并使之更为严重。他们所有的毛病、生活的细节成了公众的谈资,而他们自己所能做的只是完全习惯于被称为“疯子”、“二百五”、“蠢货”等。

  在一个重视生男孩的民族中,因没有孩子而遭到谴责与嘲骂,一点儿也不奇怪。就像传说中先知撒母耳的母亲,“为了激怒她,仇敌触动了她的痛处”。不管有意无意,一个母亲悄悄地闷死了她的一个孩子,人们对此并不大惊小怪,那一定是个女孩。

  婚礼中新娘的遭遇也是中国人缺乏同情的典型例证。新娘一般都很年幼,也很害羞胆怯,突然置身于那么多陌生人当中,难免感到恐惧。尽管各地风俗差别很大,但都任凭众人盯着这些可怜的孩子,完全漠视她们此刻的心情。有的地方,人们可以随意拉开轿帘用工着新娘看;还有的地方,新娘会成为尚未出嫁的姑娘们取乐的对象。她们站在新娘经过的道旁,大把大把地向她头上撒草籽或谷糠,新娘的头发是费了好长时间,仔细油过的,那些东西会牢牢地粘在上面。在公婆门前,新娘一下轿子,就立刻成了人们品评的对象,仿佛一匹刚买来的马,此时此刻,新娘的心情当然是不难想像的。

  中国人缺乏同情还表现在他们的大家庭生活方面。尽管各家情况不同,我们仍然可以轻而易举地发现,他们的家庭生活并不幸福。他们也不可能幸福,因为缺少感情上的结合,而这一点在我们的现实生活中恰恰是至关重要的。中国人的家庭只是个人组成的团体而已,他们持久稳定地结合在一起,有共同的利益,也有不同的利益。这种家庭在我们看来根本不是家庭,因为家庭成员之间没有同情心。

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Kurt (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 01:38AM
亚瑟·亨·史密斯(Arthur H. Smith1845-1932)是一位美国传教士,中文名字叫明恩溥,曾在中国居留五十余年之久。他于1890年起在上海的英文报纸《中国北方每日新闻》上发表了一系列有关中国的文章并引起轰动,后于1894年整理出版了《中国人的性格》一书,被公认为近现代研究中国民族性最详尽、最切实的著作。

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 01:44AM by Kurt.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Objectivity (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 06:43AM
Intra-racial differences are considerably more substantial than inter-racial differences. Moreover, there is no lack of creativity among East Asians relative to White; perhaps among the less performing students, but not among the top percentile. If this was the case, the top percentile of Japanese and Korean students would not be able to outscore the top percentile of German and U.S. students by a large margin in problem-solving tasks.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 06:45AM by Objectivity.

Re: Do East-Asians think differently?
Posted by: Thepsychologist (IP Logged)
Date: September 22, 2009 09:59AM
Objectivity wrote:

>the top percentile of Japanese and Korean students would not be able to >outscore the top percentile of German and U.S. students by a large margin >in problem-solving tasks.

So, you are saying that (at the very top percentage) Japanese and Korean students DO outscore the German and U.S. students by a large margin in problem-solving tasks?

That is like saying they are smarter than German and U.S. students, isn't it?

Goto Page: 123Next
Current Page: 1 of 3


This forum is currently read only. This is a temporary situation. Please check back later.
Phorum
YPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//"> Do East-Asians think differently? - Do East-Asians think differently?
page served in 0.086s