so???? where did they find it? how can they be so sure it was launched by NK? If it was, why? If these two countries are still technically in war, was SK ship in NK's territory? there are so many unanwered questions. And you shouldn't make your judgement so quick. But anyhow, i am not going to argue with you any more. You are just a follower like most of people on this site. you don't think or maybe you don't have brain at all. cheers.

Melbguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uberche, how do you know NK is led by an insane
> lunatic? You have the impression because of all
> the media shown to you. And you don't think.

He leaves his people in absolute poverty while he and his family live as kings. He repeatedly threatens anyone he doesn't like with war. He dresses like Elvis Presley. He loves movies so much he KIDNAPPED a famous director and forced him to make movies for him. He has had many other people from a variety of countries kidnapped. These actions to me say Insane Lunatic. If to you they seem rational and intelligent I guess that just says a lot about you...

> Interesting thing is this morning the news on ABC
> about the SK destroyer sinking. The news is like
> this " South Korea government confirmed the ship
> was hit by NK's torpedo. It broke into two
> parts...... more than 100 died." This is the
> perfect typical western news. It sounds very
> neutual just report the "fact". But where is NK's
> argument? For idiot people like you, you would
> think " em.. NK did bad thing again. What a
> gangster." As I said, you have your opinion
> already and you are not standing in the middle. It
> is same as during 911, everyone thought Iraq had
> massive destroying weapons etc. Back at that time,
> on TV/papers, there was no place for voice of
> people who don't believe what Bush said. Well, now
> the fact is Iraq didn't have such weapons. And the
> states are struggling to finish the war. I doubt
> Obama want start the second Korean war. It will
> destroy SK and maybe yankees themselves

The difference between 9/11 and NK is that the facts of 9/11 didn't agree with the official story. All the facts we have of NK do agree with what is being said. Where is NK's side? That's a good question, why doesn't NK open up and talk to people, why doesn't NK let reporters into it's borders, why aren't foreigners allowed to talk to anyone in NK except the people the NK gov't says they can? Why was NK's seemingly only response 'If you try to punish us for this there will be war'? Why is pretty much the only country in the world who actually supports and helps NK China? A country which has a very strong bias towards keeping that barrier between SK and China. Why are there large underground tunnels leading from North Korean territory towards Seoul SK? Oh right, North Korea was "mining for Coal" and got lost... what utter contemptible bullshit. And now NK wants to act like the innocent victim "Oh my oh my! Why wont anyone believe poor old me?!" Maybe because you've been acting like a retarded 12 year old child who managed to get his hands on his daddy's shotgun and has a serious chip on his shoulder. Maybe because your people live in absolute poverty while your children wander around wasting money and driving fancy sports cars. Maybe because you ILLEGALLY ABDUCT citizens of other countries and make them work for you as slaves!

> BTW, I never said NK is not responsible for the
> accident. What I said is we are not sure whether
> it is done by NK as we don't see the
> facts/arguments from both sides. Even if NK did
> it, why did they do it? Was it because SK ship
> went into their territory or other reasons? A near
> 30yrs old person like you, Uberche. You should be
> smarter enough to think before talk. good luck.

Speaking of being smarter before you talk. I've never claimed NK sunk the ship. Everything I've claimed they did is very well known and backed up by facts. Honestly I don't know who sunk the ship and it doesn't factor into my opinion of NK. My opinion of NK is based on the known despicable actions their leaders have done. So yeah... think before you talk next time.

I may not always agree with what you say (seldom or never) but I can usually understand it as you are a CHinese Nationalist. But China's and your absolute blind support of a country like NK is just sick and twisted. People like you are why people in NK starve to death. I truly hope Buddhism is real just for the simple reason that Karma is going kick your ass in the afterlife/next life. I honestly hope you come back as a North Korean peasant.

Uberche, firstly I am not a buddhism. So I don't believe there is a life afterwards. I am not Dalai Lama. You don't need to hope me come back as a NK peasant. BTW, they are not peasants. They are farming workers. Well, with Americans are still in SK and SK people are still closer to yankees than to Chinese. It is the only choice China has to support NK for her own's safety. Once yankees go back to north america. It will then be time for Chinese to pressure them to make changes.

Melbguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uberche, firstly I am not a buddhism. So I don't
> believe there is a life afterwards.

Is it a problem in China where people don't know how to understand what they read?! I never said YOU were a Buddhist. I said I hope it's real.

> I am not Dalai
> Lama. You don't need to hope me come back as a NK
> peasant.

I don't need to but I do anyway. Just so you can go live in your lovely land of misunderstood North Korea.

> BTW, they are not peasants. They are
> farming workers.

Tomato - Tomahto

> Well, with Americans are still in
> SK and SK people are still closer to yankees than
> to Chinese. It is the only choice China has to
> support NK for her own's safety. Once yankees go
> back to north america. It will then be time for
> Chinese to pressure them to make changes.

So China doesn't care about the millions living in poverty in NK, as long as they don't have to be near SK... China... Land of Compassion...

The only one who can stop this whole NK/SK conflict is China. China needs to pressure NK to change it's not the 1950's and 60's, if SK wasn't under constant threat from NK they wouldn't want the USA there. SK has had many protests and riots by it's citizens demanding the USA leave, the only reason the government wont agree is they are terrified that without the USA there, NK would have no reason to not invade. If China were to stop their support of this psychotic dictator and force change, the USA would have to leave, Korea could be united and China wouldn't have to continually lose face for supporting such a disgusting regime. Win Win for everyone except the USA as they'd lose some great military bases in Asia.

Naive thought, Unberche.

美帝是纸老虎

btw, Uberche. Why should chinese follow what your west think is the best to NK or SK? And why should NK change their way of living? Do you think the west way of living is the best? In east Asian culture, if the people can't tolerate any more, there will be rebellion. And the leader will be killed or thrown away. It is deep inside the east asian culture. For people here who has not much knowledge of western culture, in white people's whole history, it has never happend that a farmer / peasant led people rebel and abolished the king and erect himself/herself as king/queen.

Uberche, deep in your blood, you are a natural slave. You are a follower only. There is no change from your ancestor. So save your breath, go back to Canada and enjoy your own's happy life. The fate of NK & SK will be decided by themselves with the influence of chinese and yankees.

Melbguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Naive thought, Unberche.

Yeah... it's so naive to think a country could actually care that they are helping another country enslave their people. Such silly thoughts to think that a country might actually have the basic common decency to NOT act like a 12 year old spoiled child...

Melbguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, Uberche. Why should chinese follow what your
> west think is the best to NK or SK?

They shouldn't. They should do what they would want other people to do to them. In other words, think if it was your mother and father living as peasants in North Korea, would you want China to continue supporting their government?

> And why should
> NK change their way of living?

Because they are KIDNAPPING INNOCENT PEOPLE. If the NK people want to live in that shit hole that's their choice but when you start kidnapping others and FORCING them to live there, that's no longer a choice.

> Do you think the
> west way of living is the best?

I love that not kidnapping innocent people is considered "west way" in your mind...

> In east Asian
> culture, if the people can't tolerate any more,
> there will be rebellion. And the leader will be
> killed or thrown away. It is deep inside the east
> asian culture. For people here who has not much
> knowledge of western culture, in white people's
> whole history, it has never happend that a farmer
> / peasant led people rebel and abolished the king
> and erect himself/herself as king/queen.

Wow.... your knowledge of history is.... lacking... Peasants have revolted many times in the West. What you are saying is in the West when peasants revolt they don't take total control and kill all their enemies, and that's generally true, of course I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. Our revolts by the working class/peasants have led to IMPROVEMENTS in our living conditions and political laws, not dictatorships and emperors who kill anyone who is against them. Yeah, China has lots of revolutions in it's history, but inability to keep your people from killing you doesn't really strike me as a bragging point of East Asian Culture...

Admitedly in the west it's unlikely that a grain farmer could rise up, over throw our government and then, due to his complete lack of knowledge on how to run a country, starve to death 20 Million of our citizens while refusing any offer of help because he wanted to save face... but again.. I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 03:46PM by Uberche.

hey, when people are suffering hunger, there are only three things they can do, leave to find things to eat, die or revoke.
i don't care if you are an american, canadian or korean, chinese.

North Korean Military officially announced that they did not own a Ghadir class submarine.
Can we actually believe their statement?
Than what is this picture all about? Take a look.

<Satellite image by Google Earth>

This is a picture taken in Sept. 19th 2006.
It was taken from a North Korean Naval base located in the Yellow Sea. Clearly you can see. Six of them.
According to this picture(thanks to Google Earth) we can say that the North Korean military has given a false statement.
What even more ridiculous to see is that the North thought they could get away with this. What are they thinking..

Let's just say, for North's sake, that they were telling the truth. That means not only South Korea but the US and including many other nations and google earth was also lying about this matter.

If the Cheonan incident was in fact not the act from the North, then they had no reason to lie in the first place right? But in this case, their lies only further strengthened our suspicions.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2010 06:04AM by Olive.

NK is preaching to the choir, that's all they ever do. Their people can pretend theya re in the right and countries like China can pretend to believe their lies and consider the matter closed.

Actually, ALL govts are corrupt. NK kidnaps and kills people. US assassinates other world leaders and put in place puppet leaders - they killed Saddam Hussein on trumped up charges of harboring "weapons of mass destruction" and tried to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro many times. So who is to say one is right and the other is wrong?

The only one trying to pretend anyone is right and wrong is Melbguy. I'm not saying the USA is right, they are the world's biggest terrorist state in my opinion but trying to pretend NK isn't right up there with them as psychotic states who murder innocents is a joke.

And Saddam Hussein deserved to get hung. Just wish the Iraqi people could have done it themselves, and line up Bush, Cheney, Reagan (time took care of him) and everyone else who forced Saddam on the Iraqi people to begin with along beside him on the gallows as far as I'm concerned.

And Israel is just as bad as NK. I am surprised that my thread was deleted. Maybe the owners of this Forum are Jewish. Why is it that we can discuss NK and China but not Israel? They just murdered a dozen aid workers.

Lots of forums don't allow people to talk about Israel because it attracts the biggots. I was on a forum before that had huge problems with anti-Israel crowds acting like assholes and not taking part in discussions, instead just insulting and trolling the board with crap. It's not often you get anti-NK crowds because there is no fun in being an anti-NK troll, not many people are stupid enough to try and justify the actions NK takes...

The North Korean soccer team, after losing all three of their games in the 2010 World Cup, sat through six hours of public shaming upon their return to their home country.

After their surprisingly close opening game against Brazil, North Korean officials agreed to show the team’s next two games on air. Bad idea. North Korea lost 7-0 to Portugal, then 3-0 to the Ivory Coast. Naturally, then, they dealt with this when they got home:

Earlier this month the team and manager were forced onto a stage at the People’s Palace of Culture in front of 400 government officials, students, and journalists. According to the Guardian, the athletes were subjected to a “six-hour barrage of criticism” for their poor performances that was led by a TV commentator and sports minister Pak Myong-chol.

If that wasn’t enough, players were then forced to go on stage and make disparaging comments about their coach, Kim Jong-hun, who has since been put into a labor camp.

The reason that he’s been singled out is because the team’s poor performance is “seen as a personal betrayal of Kim Jong-un,” who is the son of current crazy North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il. A strong showing at the Cup would have been credited to Jong-un, thus making the transition of power easier. That was not the case, and now the coach must pay.

[www.sportsgrid.com]

Gotta love North Korea! Thanks China for helping make the world so much nicer!

Will US, or UN ever screw Kim Jong Il regime and free (or conquer) the N. I'm waiting for it.

I hope so. but no way to do it now with China supporting them. China has North Korea and the USA has Israel. Both need to give up their little colony and stop the instability in the world.

I agree with you ideally, but it's very hard happen.

People always want to control the other because they wanna stabilize all the factors that affect their well being.

The Korean war was ended with a stopping war treaty not ending war. Techonically NK is still in war situation with SK and UN army which in fact is American army.

China does not support a lot of NK's actions. But it has no choice. There are so few communist countries left in Asia (eg NK and Vietnam), so China has to lend its support.

The same way US has to support Israel no matter how many murders they commit. US also supported Sadam Hussein in the early days and Ayatollah Khomeini was on the CIA payroll in the 1970s.

The full list of murderers and dictators that America supported is here:
[www.tomveatch.com]

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> China does not support a lot of NK's actions. But
> it has no choice. There are so few communist
> countries left in Asia (eg NK and Vietnam), so
> China has to lend its support.

There are no communist countries in Asia. China is capitalist, NK is... insane and Vietnam is some mixture.

> The same way US has to support Israel no matter
> how many murders they commit. US also supported
> Sadam Hussein in the early days and Ayatollah
> Khomeini was on the CIA payroll in the 1970s.

They don't have to, they do because they are idiots who think it brings "stability" to the mid-east, good job on that...

I think NK is too isolated, like China in the last middle century. People don't know too much about the outside world, being simply blinded by their government. Most important of all, their leaders seem reluctant to change the current situation, even their people suffering. On the other hand, Chinese leaders from Deng Xiaoping afterwards realized China should be open to the world, and China developed fast since then. In my opinion, it has nothing, or only very little, to do with Socialism and Capitalism. As Deng Xiaoping once said, "A cat is a good cat, no matter white or black, as long as it can catch mice."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 11:12AM by Lgc.

Lgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think NK is too isolated, like China in the last
> middle century. People don't know too much about
> the outside world, being simply blinded by their
> government. Most important of all, their leaders
> seem reluctant to change the current situation,
> even their people suffering. On the other hand,
> Chinese leaders from Deng Xiaoping afterwards
> realized China should be open to the world, and
> China developed fast since then. In my opinion, it
> has nothing, or only very little, to do with
> Socialism and Capitalism. As Deng Xiaoping once
> said, "A cat is a good cat, no matter white or
> black, as long as it can catch mice."

Agreed, hope China's leaders sometime also realize they should be pushing NK to open up too and stop acting like spoiled child.

Open up = change = rebellion = revolution

No one in hell wanna be dethrone anyway so they just keep their people to swear loyality to their ummm.... well "the god who create that THE GREATEST NORTH KOREAN". You can't simply use reason to make change to that kind of demon anyway. The only way to liberate NK is just killing that damn KIM.

Really? shall I buy you a gun and one way ticket to NK?

One day the people there will find the truth.but don't be so Political!
We are suppose to help each other out,don't we?
Because you mentioned the "thread". You don't have a heart of hleping others.

The voices of criticism among Chinese netizens are on the rise as more words are coming up that recent visit of North Korean dictator was for the purpose of getting Chinese governments acknowledgement for his power succession plan. This is not the first time that Kim's visit to China was severly blamed as we have heard sarcastic words like "This was the case when he was in China this May", "Get out of China right away" and "Expel that greedy fatty".

So, What is it like now in Pyongyang? There's no question about it. We all know that Kim is indulged in extravagant life and he's a big fan of fancy cars and haute cuisine, which is totally insane because tens of thousands of his people are dying for hunger and economy is worsened due to the failure of currency revaluation.

During the recent trip to China, the fatty Kim has made his son beg. There were so many public denouncements and gossips such as "The younger Kim needs to be proclaimed as "Crown prince" to comply with the old tradition of Ming dynasty." and "Big fatty is accompanying his little fatty fellow this time."

Kim's recent visit was more than enough to remind us what we have done in 17th century that Choseon dynasty bowed to China obsequiously for the succession of the heir of king. Seriously, is this what this reclusive nation means by "Self reliance" and "Independence"? Their diplomacy with China is absolutely wrong and servile. As expected and not surprisingly, this time Kim never let us down and showed us hypocrisy.