Lordarithon Wrote:
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> You guys are also forgetting something else. NK
> has a massive military sitting behind it's border,
> China doesn't want to have to deal with that as
> well. It's better to just stay friendly with a 1
> million man military. Sure China has a bigger one
> and all that but still 1 million people can put
> some hurt on anyone no matter how many more of the
> others there are.


That's a good point, actually. 1 million strong army is a threat, especially when it's your next door neighbor.

Well, it's exciting times for China to do something here. NK is saber rattling, what will China do? All eyes are on them this summer! (two years in a row).

Uberche,

The US did have every intention of invading China as part of their containment of communism doctrine, which also led them to their disastrous invasion of Vietnam about a decade later.

I am glad you mentioned MacArthur's advocacy of using atomic weapons that was later rejected by President Truman. However, you forgot to mention that this option was concluded by MacArthur only when he realized that direct invasion would cost too many US soldiers.

Coincidently, this was the same sequence of military planning events that led to the US's horrible decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
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> Uberche,
>
> The US did have every intention of invading China
> as part of their containment of communism
> doctrine, which also led them to their disastrous
> invasion of Vietnam about a decade later.

Did one of your "insiders" tell you that too? Because many people from history have said that the president was not planning on invading and in fact order MacArthur to take special care to not invade when approaching the Chinese border. The US leaders knew that an invasion of China would basically start another world war so that option was out the window immediately.

> I am glad you mentioned MacArthur's advocacy of
> using atomic weapons that was later rejected by
> President Truman. However, you forgot to mention
> that this option was concluded by MacArthur only
> when he realized that direct invasion would cost
> too many US soldiers.

I don't mean to be a dick but you really need to research better... MacArthur wanted this option because the war in Korea was going so badly. Something of a distraction to try and get China to stop pushing South during their Winter Offensive as the US and SK forces had not yet been able to figure out a way to combat Chinese tactics at that point. In the beginning MacArthur wanted to invade China and thought it would present little difficulty, the government refused. It wasn't until China and the NK forces had retaken Seoul that he started talking really about dropping a bomb on Beijing. It was rejected by the leaders of the US and later MacArthur was removed from power for insubordination mostly because he wouldn't accept the governments continued insistence that a cease fire must be signed. At no time did the government plan to invade China. MacArthur did on his own, in fact his own idiocy lengthed the war after he sent ultimatums to China right when a cease fire was about to be signed.

Uberche,

Your recent post still does not dismiss the notion that the US did have intentions to invade China.

MacArthur was one of the greatest generals in US history. From a military standpoint, he did have plans to bring the war into China directly as they were shielding the military remnants of the DPRK. Moreover, your last post confirms his intention to invade. Hence, if MacArthur had every intention to invade, so did the US.

Regardless, the US Air Force already invaded China through their airspace as they flew numerous sorties north of the Yalu River.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
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> Uberche,
>
> Your recent post still does not dismiss the notion
> that the US did have intentions to invade China.
>
>
> MacArthur was one of the greatest generals in US
> history. From a military standpoint, he did have
> plans to bring the war into China directly as they
> were shielding the military remnants of the DPRK.
> Moreover, your last post confirms his intention to
> invade. Hence, if MacArthur had every intention
> to invade, so did the US.

That's pretty specious logic you are using there. General MacArthur was not the US. He was a General, he was answerable to his superiors. If one Chinese General says that China should drop a Nuclear bomb on Tibet and the Chinese government says no of course not that's insane, would you then say that China wants to drop a bomb on Tibet? Of course not because those in power don't want to.

The leader of the US said no repeatedly, hence the US did not want to invade China.

> Regardless, the US Air Force already invaded China
> through their airspace as they flew numerous
> sorties north of the Yalu River.

They violated China's airspace, this is different from Invading. It's not good I agree but it's not an invasion force and happens all the time on the borders of countries at war.

Uberche,

In times of war, it is not uncommon for the general in the field to act and speak on behalf of the nation he or she serves in the absence of the political authority at the moment.

Furthermore, assuming one's national airspace is sovereign territory, the violation of the US Air Force in China's airspace does constitute as an invasion of the territory in China.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
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> Uberche,
>
> In times of war, it is not uncommon for the
> general in the field to act and speak on behalf of
> the nation he or she serves in the absence of the
> political authority at the moment.

And when the general is continually refused ok for his plans and told again and again that what he wants is not what the country wants then he is removed from post for the comments he has made by the leader of the country you still think he was speaking for the country?

> Furthermore, assuming one's national airspace is
> sovereign territory, the violation of the US Air
> Force in China's airspace does constitute as an
> invasion of the territory in China.

By the loosest of definitions you are correct but generally when we talk about war an invasion is used to describe when one armed force violates a sovereign territory for the purpose of attacking said territory. Technically speaking the US invaded China when it flew it's spy plane into China's air space not that long ago (the one that crashed) but no one was stupid enough to actually pretend it was an invasion. It was a violation of China's Airspace and while it wasn't good it also wasn't a cause for war.

Uberche,

From layman's perspective, you are right.

However, from an international law's perspective, you are wrong.

The US did not invade China in the case of the spy plane incident. Remember, the US always claimed that its spy plane was over international waters and/or airspace.

If it did not stick to this claim, their spying in China's airspace would have only then been considered an invasion and a potential act of war.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uberche,
>
> From layman's perspective, you are right.
>
> However, from an international law's perspective,
> you are wrong.
>
> The US did not invade China in the case of the spy
> plane incident. Remember, the US always claimed
> that its spy plane was over international waters
> and/or airspace.
>
> If it did not stick to this claim, their spying in
> China's airspace would have only then been
> considered an invasion and a potential act of war.

It has nothing to do with the US sticking to their claim. The plane was flying over a part of water that, according to a UN convention, was part of China, however the US did not sign that convention so according to them it was not part of China. However they admitted to violating Chinese space to land the plane without permission hence their apology letter.

Yes, If China was insane, they could have claimed it was an act of war as by the very loosest of definitions it was an invasion but it would have been verging on idiocy much like claiming the violation of air space leading up to the Chinese involvement in Korea was an Invasion by the US is incredibly foolish.

Uberche,

I think everyone knows why China got involved in the Korean War.

However, when the US Air Force crossed into Chinese territory, they were not there taking in the sights of the Great Wall. They were looking to attack and/or bomb military objectives. Hence, the US Air Force's mission was an act of war even though if there was no armies on the ground.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
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> Uberche,
>
> I think everyone knows why China got involved in
> the Korean War.
>
> However, when the US Air Force crossed into
> Chinese territory, they were not there taking in
> the sights of the Great Wall. They were looking
> to attack and/or bomb military objectives. Hence,
> the US Air Force's mission was an act of war even
> though if there was no armies on the ground.

Thanks for more of your exciting "insider" information! Did you talk to honest to goodness American Air Force pilots who told you that? Or did you just pull it out of your ass like most of your "facts"? Air Force planes do scouting missions all the time, they were also looking for NK forces as they were on a fast retreat at that time. For all you know they WERE off looking at the wall. Speculating as to their mission is pointless, what we know is they didn't attack, they didn't invade (beyond Airspace) and they didn't actually plan on nuking Beijing. The only ones who wanted to do that were an asshole General who had no idea about China's strength and a couple of other hardliners back home who were ignored by the people in charge. So don't go rambling off about how the US was JUST about to invade China or was actually thinking of bombing Beijing unless you know what you are talking about.

Uberche,

As usual, you love to confuse the obvious.

Let me guess, if Russia sent fighter aircraft to fly over the US, the US will dismiss that as simply Russian Air Force pilots wanting to see the Grand Canyon. If such a situation occurred, those Russian pilots will be lucky to not be shot down for spying and not be held accountable for starting a war between the US and Russia. Countries spy on each other, but I do not know where you get the idea that spying on this level does not go unpunished?

Furthermore, General MacArthur was one of the greatest generals in US history. To call him an asshole is blatant disrespect. I do not like any military attacking China or her army, but I do have respect for a noble enemy that MacArthur was.

If you are trying to compare MacArthur to the yes-man generals during the recent Iraq and ongoing Afghanistan and Pakistan War, it is you who are ignorant indeed. Those generals were despicable and had no backbones as their leaders who decided to enter those wars.

i wish the US troops had continued across the Yalu River, so that China would be like Taiwan now, rich, prosperous, free, without all that commie scum!

Wei Minghua,

You assume that an American victory over Communist China would have resulted in a prosperous China.

Who said that the US was obliged to return China to the rule of Chiang Kai Shek and the Kuo Min Tang?

More likely, the Global Power Elite would have turned the whole of China into a giant low wage sweatshop, with a huge illegal drug market, and under a brutal Chinese puppet, similar to Indonesia.

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uberche,
>
> As usual, you love to confuse the obvious.
>
> Let me guess, if Russia sent fighter aircraft to
> fly over the US, the US will dismiss that as
> simply Russian Air Force pilots wanting to see the
> Grand Canyon. If such a situation occurred, those
> Russian pilots will be lucky to not be shot down
> for spying and not be held accountable for
> starting a war between the US and Russia.
> Countries spy on each other, but I do not know
> where you get the idea that spying on this level
> does not go unpunished?

I never said it goes unpunished. The US was made to lose face for their spy plane incident. What usually happens when planes fly over neighbouring countries but don't do any damage, especially in a situation where the neighbours are fighting wars, is an apology in writing to show that it was a mistake and to make those who did it lose face.

> Furthermore, General MacArthur was one of the
> greatest generals in US history. To call him an
> asshole is blatant disrespect. I do not like any
> military attacking China or her army, but I do
> have respect for a noble enemy that MacArthur
> was.

He WAS one of the greatest but during the Korean war he was SEVERELY mistaken in his appraisal of China and he was forced out of service because of it. He was a great tactician and did a lot of great things but the Korean war was the downfall of MacArthur.

> If you are trying to compare MacArthur to the
> yes-man generals during the recent Iraq and
> ongoing Afghanistan and Pakistan War, it is you
> who are ignorant indeed. Those generals were
> despicable and had no backbones as their leaders
> who decided to enter those wars.

How would anything I said be comparing him to Yes-men? He was the polar opposite of yes-men. He was a maverick who led on his own terms and often did not listen to his leaders. This is EXACTLY why your comments about if MacArthur said it it must have been the US who said it is WRONG. Yes-men follow blindly, MacArthur made judgement calls without consulting his leaders and acted on them, it worked great for him in the previous wars but in Korea it failed him miserably. I repeat that you saying the US wanted to invade China was wrong and you have never shown once ounce of proof to back it up except that MacArthur said he wanted to.

Uberche,

Just some points for clarification.

In regards to the spy plane incident, China did suffer damage in that she lost one of her pilots that the US financially compensated to Wang Wei's family.

You are absolutely right about MacArthur's way of conducting wars. He was one that made decisions in the field that sometimes were not in the US's interest. He was notoriously famous for this style of conduct during WWII.

However, the fact that he never was kicked out of the military during WWII shows proof that the US government gave him free reign in times of war. Hence, during the Korean conflict, how would any of his actions prior to the US government censuring him is not considered policy?

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
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> However, the fact that he never was kicked out of
> the military during WWII shows proof that the US
> government gave him free reign in times of war.
> Hence, during the Korean conflict, how would any
> of his actions prior to the US government
> censuring him is not considered policy?

BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT CONTINUALLY SAID NO AND TOLD HIM HE COULDN'T DO IT. Are you not fucking reading what I'm saying? During World War two he acted without consulting and they let him do it because it got results. During Korea He tried to start doing the same and they told him repeatedly no and he stopped what he was doing and was later removed. Do you honestly not see the difference? In one the government let him do it thereby making him his own policy maker. In Korea they didn't let him do it and continually stopped him thereby showing that they were no long willing to let him do that. Hence his policies were no longer to be viewed as American policies, only his own policies.

I'm going to state this once more and try to actually think about the answer ok?

A Chinese General goes on TV and says he thinks Beijing should drop a Bomb on Lhasa. In the past this general has been allowed to do what he wants and Beijing let him be. However in this case Beijing says "No, China will not drop a bomb on Lhasa."

What would you consider the policy of China in this case? Bombing Lhasa or Not bombing?

Kim Jung Il announced that his third son, who is only 26, will be the successor to his mad regime.

It is another addition to the rash decisions made by Kim Jung Il. Some North Korean experts in the South Korean Intelligence speculate that North Korea is using the hardline policies to stabilize the succession.

This may be the beginning of the genuine Kim Dynasty of North Korea, the kingdom of brutality and evil.

If this madness continues, the international society should stop sending aids to North Korea, thereby forcing Kim Jung Il to come back to his senses.

This preposterous dynasty should be exterminated immediately!

Maybe it should be...but it's really not doing anything different compared to what other countries do to their people or others...it's all shite, to put it simple.

Is this the son with all the cars and western crap all the time? Or does he dress like Elvis too?

Euna Lee and Laura Ling come home.

Actually China secretly support North Korea to develop nuclear weapons.
China is the one to blame not North Korea.

Then they are both to blame and not just China.

Like China, let's not forget that Russia also condoned Krazy Kim's activities, that is until this crazy nut was launching missiles and setting off nuclear bombs in their own backyard.

LOL yeah it's like when your nut neighbor starts a big fire in his back yard, throwing dried up leaves in it on a windy day....ashes fly everywhere and burning embers go with them...it's pretty damn scary.

eh.........
i don't want to die in the nuclear bombing or mutate into another creature.if no other options.......ok i prefer the first one.

Plupie if I mutate I want to mutate into Wolverine...or a Ninja Turtle...I don't care which lol.

Don't worry if you don't die right away, just drink the local water and you'll die real fast.

I guess in Japan when we bombed them people started drinking the water and they started dying, so many people who were suffering, they drank the water anyway just so they wouldn't have to suffer any longer.

lol..are we in a prophase of evolution or what/ bomb all the nuclears on the earth,hunam all mutate to batman spiderman superman lol
if no pain on mutating process ,maybe ,i can try ...spiderwoman

Then Kim2 might trumpet he's the impetus of history lol

LOL yeah he'd be known as the evolver of humankind.

Today, North Korea's top court convicted two American journalists Euna Lee and Laura Ling, and "sentenced each of them to 12 years of reform through labor." This will amount to using them for extortion.