Just read that the former head of the state-owned Beijing Airport has been ... executed. He was convicted of accepted $4 million in bribes and stealing another $12 million in public funds.

I wish the US would do the same thing with wrongdoers here--executives at AIG, the former CEO of Countrywide, Alan Greenspan, Bernie Madoff, to name just a few illustrious names from a long list of crooks and criminals. It's time we clean house and follow China's admirable example!

[news.bbc.co.uk]

We approve of giving this kind person a death penalty.Do you Americans agree it?
As much as we know,most people in Us is combat death penalty,even criminals like who killed many people,defalcated billions of money,human trader...

Yes, i do. I wouldn't mind if the swindlers who crashed the economy mentioned in the original post would get this treatment. It would never happen though in the US. The rich can afford to buy the best lawyers in the land.

Most states in the US have halted executions. There are several problems with the death penalty in the US:

- anyone on death row will appeal and this legal process can take up 10+ years and cost millions of taxpayer dollars;

- the death penalty have been given to people who were completely innocent. So, unless there is strong evidence (i.e. DNA), the death penalty should not be handed out.

Tangerine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most states in the US have halted executions.

Last I heard it was 35 Have Death Penalty and 15 Don't....

Has that changed?

> It's time we clean house and follow China's admirable example!

Seriously?! You can't honestly think that they apply this law without bias... Show me a Provincial Police Chief and I'll show you a man who is almost certainly living WAY beyond his means...

The Death penalty for rich theives is foolish, you want to punish the greedy? Take everything they own, obviously they value money beyond anything else so you want to hurt them, make them broke. Take every home, every car, every penny they have and give it all to the people whose lives they destroyed, then put them in prison for life and let them rot.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2009 03:47AM by Uberche.

Uberche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tangerine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most states in the US have halted executions.
>
> Last I heard it was 35 Have Death Penalty and 15
> Don't....
>
> Has that changed?
>
> > It's time we clean house and follow China's
> admirable example!
>


> Seriously?! You can't honestly think that they
> apply this law without bias... Show me a
> Provincial Police Chief and I'll show you a man
> who is almost certainly living WAY beyond his
> means...
>
> The Death penalty for rich theives is foolish, you
> want to punish the greedy? Take everything they
> own, obviously they value money beyond anything
> else so you want to hurt them, make them broke.
> Take every home, every car, every penny they have
> and give it all to the people whose lives they
> destroyed, then put them in prison for life and
> let them rot.


Oh,in China,rich people won't be put into death if the property they break into are not public property.And the death penalty is always with accessory penalty:confiscation of property.


Criminal Law of the PRC

Article 185 Any employee of a bank or of any other banking institution who, taking advantage of his position, misappropriates money belonging to the bank or any client shall be convicted and punished according to the provisions in Article 272 of this Law.

If any employee of a State-owned banking institution or any person who is assigned by a State-owned banking institution to a banking institution that is not owned by the State to engage in public service commits the act mentioned in the preceding paragraph, he shall be convicted and punished according to the provisions in Article 384 of this Law.


Article 383 A person who embezzles the amount of not less than 100,000 yuan shall be sentenced to fixed-term imprisonment of not less than ten years or life imprisonment and may concurrently be sentenced to confiscation of property; and if the circumstance is especially serious, to death and concurrently to confiscation of property.

Article 384
　　A public servant of the state who, by taking advantage of his post, misappropriates the public money for his own use or for conducting an illegal activity, or misappropriates a relatively large amount of public money for conducting activities with a view of profit, or misappropriates a relatively large amount of public money and fails to return it after three months, shall be guilty of a crime of misappropriation of public money and shall be sentenced to fixed-term imprisonment of not more than five years or criminal detention; and if the circumstance is serious, to fixed-term imprisonment of not less than five years. If such a person misappropriates a large amount of public money and fails to return it, he shall be sentenced to fixed-term imprisonment of not less than ten years or life imprisonment.

Take everything and leave them alive. Make them work during their prison term and make them work if they ever get out. Every penny they make working while in jail should go to the people they hurt.

Dont' just take their money and kill them, take their money and then make them give back to the society they hurt.

That's easy with a local guy who has stolen a million dollars or something over time. The big boys, however, are smart enough to hide their wealth in various havens around the globe.

All of Bernie Madoff's assets were confiscated but the Feds managed to locate only $1 billion of this. There must be much more hidden in secure places.

Most of the time, it's up to the individual victims to go after the scumbags through suits in civil court. Hollinger filed a $92 million suit against Conrad Black who's doing 6 1/2 years in jail for ripping this company off. What Hollinger will recover remains to be seen.

One little tidbit that i read the other day and appreciate is that some states in the US are considering charging their more affluent inmates for their keep, estimated at $80-90/day and currently totally paid for by taxpayers. In the grand scheme of things, it's a drop in the bucket but still a nice little gesture toward taxpayers.

Yeah I'd say anyone who has a high net worth or who is convicted or ripping people off for huge amounts of money should definitely be made to pay for their stay. Also cut up their passports and track all their money dealings from that day till the day they die. If you prove you can't be responsible with money you shouldn't have the freedom to play with it like regular people.... I don't think current laws are even close to enough but I dont' think death penalty is needed. (even though I can't say I'll be crying if they did kill those responsible.)

I was somewhat facetious with my endorsement of China's endorsement policy. That said, i understand that sometimes it wants to set a few good examples and also that their application of this policy is often haphazard.

In the West, we have become much too lax and have become too much the permissive society. I remember with distaste the congressional hearings where financial committees probed a few of the CEOs about the mess they had created. It sounded like a talk to kids from Kindergarten. All a big farce. The politicians couldn't ask tough questions because they had grossly reneged on their duty to oversee the financial sector.

Tangerine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the West, we have become much too lax and have
> become too much the permissive society. I remember
> with distaste the congressional hearings where
> financial committees probed a few of the CEOs
> about the mess they had created. It sounded like a
> talk to kids from Kindergarten. All a big farce.
> The politicians couldn't ask tough questions
> because they had grossly reneged on their duty to
> oversee the financial sector.

Yeah saw that too... was sick. You ever see the time George Galloway went in front of Congress before the Iraq war about his dealings with Saddam? this is how things should happen in meetings in Congress, straight truth and anger at those responsible. (Should say first though that I don't like Galloway, from what I've heard he's a dick though I don't know him that well, however his handling of Congress is just brilliant)

Galloway vs Congress

Galloway Shorter

The short version gives a taste but I really suggest watching the longer if you have time.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 05:22AM by Uberche.

Galloway's example was an easy one because it reflected an absolute: he either aided Saddam or he didn't. Politicians dealing with the wealthy in this country is another matter because they're all feeding from the same trough. Unless we're going to do something about the tax havens*, stop doling out welfare to the rich and start taxing the hell out of the super wealthy then the farcical performances in Congress are bound to continue.

What worries me is that there are positive signs in the US, France and Germany that the worst of the recession is over. This would be great news except for the fact that we haven't done anything about regulating the financial sector, executive pay, etc, etc. I worry that much needed reform might fall through the cracks" in the euphoria that we're crawling out of the recession tunnel.

*This week the US settled with USB in Switzerland about the release of names of some 52,000 American account holders. They are suspected of having hidden there some $15 billion in total and are now getting quite nervous. Ha,ha, i love it!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 12:20PM by Tangerine.

Tangerine,

You worry,
"What worries me is that there are positive signs in the US, France and Germany that the worst of the recession is over. This would be great news except for the fact that we haven't done anything about regulating the financial sector, executive pay, etc, etc. I worry that much needed reform might fall through the cracks" in the euphoria that we're crawling out of the recession tunnel."

If you are going by the benchmarks set by the GPE and expounded by their economic and media stooges, then you are right that there are signs of recovery in the US.

With the the current mass unemployment coupled with the continuing layoffs that are still going to take place in the US for the next fiscal year, the current global depression is going to get worst.

Hence, we should worry about how to survive the current turmoil and to get rid of the GPE, rather than waste time trying to regulate their lesser cronies.


OBC

Hey, OBC, only a week or so ago i suggested we fight the GPE and you said it was hopeless and too late. War was inevitable, you said. Then we both decided to join the resistance in China (and probably both felt nobler for this hypothetical sacrifice ). NOW you're telling me we should fight the GPE buggers!

You know, our posts remind me of this :

[www.youtube.com]

(very funny)

Tangerine,

I never said we should not fight the GPE, I just said we should not strap on bombs to ourselves to do it.

As regular common people, we should follow the suggestions of US historian and activist, Michael Parenti. As he stated on numerous occasions, "we must education, agitate, and organize the masses."

Hence, we should spread the word of the GPE, engage in challenging discussions about their global reach and agenda, and organize ourselves first as free thinkers and then as freedom fighters against the GPE controlled nations, once the Balkanization Wars of Russia and China as well as the now probable US wars against Venezuela begin.


OBC

Overseas.Born.Chinese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Hence, we should spread the word of the GPE, engage in challenging discussions about their global reach and agenda, and organize ourselves

I dearly would love to do just that. Do you know of any activist group on the web? I'm finally getting into Superclass which i had bought at the same time as a book of (great) Chinese stories that demanded priority. The writer gives a few precedents in history in which populist (or foreign) revolt against the excesses of the seemingly all-powerful elite manages to establish a new order. This time has come again and should not be wasted!

Quote:
I never said we should not fight the GPE...

T: Yes, you did!
O: No, I didn't!
T: Yes, you did!
O: No, I didn't!

This deep argument is interrupted by the fuzz in the shape of a Scotland Yard inspector in a trench-coat with upturned collar and a felt hat who arrests the two debaters for grievous violations to the Silly Sketch Act. Before he can hand-cuff them, Cardinal Richelieu appears who declares them all impostors. A naked man sitting at the organ turns around, laughs diabolically and exclaims, "And now for something totally different..."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 04:59PM by Tangerine.

Umm, clearly the death penalty for corrupt officials in China doesn't work, as China is the most corrupt country in the world. People go into police work here because they expect the bribes and other creature comforts. If it doesn't work, don't do it.

People always think they are more clever than the system, and they don't think about being punished or getting caught, if they did they would never commit these crimes. In truth these crimes are only punished when made public, or some government venture fails because of a corrupt official, otherwise it's business as usual.

People who think enacting these tough policies in America would work are fooling themselves, as the death penalty has proven to be zero deterrent to Murder, why would it work in regards to stealing?

It's a form of punishment, not a deterrent, this much is obvious. It sends a message, that people don't listen to. No one ever thinks it will happen to them, profit and gain are what concern the person benefiting, not punishment, as they think it won't ever happen to them. No, the death penalty doesn't work, if it did there would be no corruption, or a hell of a lot less, in China, and yet it's the most corrupt government in the world. If one goes by simple result driven logic, it has little if any effect. Maybe it would be worse if there were no death penalty, however America has no death penalty, and there is a hell of a lot less corruption there, so clearly it doesn't work to deter people.

AIG, the economic collapse, this was not people breaking laws, but being stupid, which is not punishable by death, or in any way. This corrupt Chinese official stole outright and accepted millions in bribes, totally different story.

Compare different countries and their laws, as well as their crime rates, and level of governmental corruption, and you'll see what works and doesn't, death penalty, doesn't do a damn thing but make victims feel better, it's no cure for the problem though, that's for sure.