Sounds like he is a really good one and you are seriously in keeping this relationship. I'll try to help you out from my view as there must be Chinese cultures that you can't understand. That's why you always see unexpected behavior from him which can't be more ordinary in our eyes.
When I was around 21, I was so hit by a girl that I swore I will do anything for her. Unfortunately I was so shy that all reactions went the opposite way. Normally we tend to forbid love affairs in high school, so we are so nervous of that once it comes. So yes, your intimacy freaking him out absolutely makes sense.
Traditional Chinese girls tend to be veiled, which is honored as virtue. Men like different flavor -- it's the same all over the world -- but intrinsically Chinese men like conservative woman if he is a "good" guy. So try to talk to him like a friend or a little bit more than that. Don't overuse sexual lure... Sometimes you need to play naughty tricks but stop when it becomes "dangerous". In the long run, you and he will get closer and closer, you could be more and more aggressive You don't expect it to happen in months
If he's a little bit sophisticated -- which only you can tell -- he might consider marriage and kids. Forgive me that I am shallow on western culture. I think western people think kid is separate topic of marriage. But that's not true in China. It is very likely to be blamed as black sheep when two lovers get married but don't want a baby. The young generation are fine with it, but parents definitely will interfere into this. Open-minded parents might care less, but it's rare.
Parents play a major role in children's relationship. They might allow their children to have a foreign girlfriend or not. Most children take orders, someone don't. That's another thing you probably wanna find out.
I bet the uncertainty of where you live or you plan to settle is another big issue. If you say I would like to stay in China with you, he probably will kiss you right away, well... probably...
I hope these tips are helpful to you, but you have long way to go if you take it seriously

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2011 07:23PM by Debug1982.

And your going out with Yves could be a problem too, especially if it is only two of you. I think it's the same on Chinese and westerns. In <Desperate Housewives>, when Susan go out with Carlos at midnight, Mike is so jealous that had a big fight with Susan. So am I right? To build trust, it'd be much better if you mention to your yellow horse

Ah, he is a really good guy, even by Western standards. I really appreciate your advice cuz I like him a lot and am trying not to totally freak him out. Though I'm sure if he were a typically Chinese guy he would have ran like the wind a bunch of times already! LOL

He's really different from most Chinese guys and at the same time very obviously traditional. I actually told him that and he asked me how he had disappointed me! I almost fell out of my chair.
After dancing a few nights ago he drunkenly let slip that he would be locked out of his dorm and not have a place to sleep since he and S. (his female friend) would be going back to his friends place and she would take the sofa. One of my guy friends said "why dont you just sleep together, it's no big deal" and he responded with "no no no she would not accept this" and basically ran away, tho his friend watched the whole thing with no expression (I sort of wonder if "she" was referring to me?). I offered to let him stay at my dorm (I mean stay innocently, not take advantage of him hahaha) and he also ignored/freaked out over that.

I have a real concern in some of the things you mention. I am 27 to his 21. Not a huge age difference in the US, but here it seems like the experience level might be a barrier at some point. Right now it's... fun and cute and feels safe, which I love, but later on I wonder if I will have to "take over" and to be really blunt, even the idea that he might still be a virgin is freaking me out (obviously I am not and havent been for ages, etc etc etc). Because, I dont want to be the one who "ruins" him (interpret that as you will ;p). I can tell he doesn't hang out with me to gain face in front of other girls. And being realistic, the age difference, the culture difference, much as I like him I automatically assume the relationship will fizzle out at some point, or turn into "just friends." Combine that with my desire to not have biological kids (I will adopt, just not have my own) and it might be a problem. Even my own family might have a problem with my dating an Asian guy (though they would accept whatever makes me happy, because where I come from girls are the most treasured child). We've talked about what we plan to do with our lives later and he's made "weird" comments that sort of sound like he hopes I will move to his home city after HE graduates in 2 years. I'm not weirded out by that cuz I know it means he's just seriously considering if a relationship is possible (he knows I will be in China for at least a few years). But he's already told me that his parents will not accept either an older girl or a foreigner. I do think he is willing to defy them, but I dont want to be at fault for that if the relationship goes no where. I am very close to my own family and having a good relationship with family is important to me. And I have already told him I wont stay forever in China (I want to be an organic farmer and Chinese do not respect the value of farmers or their importance) though I dont know yet where I will settle.

I think, from what he has said, the reason he likes me is because I am "so good." It shocks him a lot that I always say hello to the maids and door man and guards and sometimes bring them food, that I always say xiexie and try to help. I went and got some kids off the school building (they were jumping from the stairs to the roof, freaking me out the little monkeys) and he told me good job and that he was afraid they would fall. He said if all Chinese people were like me he would love China and never want to leave. O_O oof that made me feel so heavy, I hope I never disappoint him!

The other thing is, being a student and being in China, almost everyone I know is male! And I get hit on a lot, even before I got to China but now it's like my attractiveness has gone up 300%. All the African guys in my dorm (except 1!) have literally surrounded my dorm room by moving into the rooms on either side. It's creepy enough my white male friend from across the hall refuses to hang out with me if they have their doors open. I dont hang out with those guys because they're assholes (and also because I simply am not into black guys anymore after dating a seriously bad guy as a teen). I am very selective about the guys I hang out with (Chinese and Western). I wont hang out with the ones who use Chinese girls like paper towels, something to use and throw away. Most of my friends date a lot but they are respectful, culturally aware and just all around nice guys. But both they and I know we aren't going to date or have sex. It's common in my culture to have friendships between sexes and not considered a bad/vulgar thing. And I am lucky enough to have good friends. Yves isnt even a close friend, I've only gone out with him 2-3 times and every time happened to be with the boy I like (because I always invite a group because he always asks me if I am coming alone and then I feel like I CANT come alone), we usually just chat at school and rarely even eat lunch together. My other friends who are much closer show up at 11pm, they give me random gifts (I give a lot of gifts too), in fact one of them had a birthday the other day and received flowers at work. I teased him saying "at least you've gotten some, I never have" and he brought them to me for my room. I get invited to eat a lot (I also invite them out too) and, well, basically I am just very fortunate to have very good friends. I want to keep them! At least as far as I understand none of them are interested in me (they all have or are looking for a Chinese GF and are one-woman men) and I am not interested in any of them. We hang out because we like each others personalities and can have fun talks and maybe also because sometimes we are lonely for some home-style comfort, going over to visit the friends dorm, laying all together on the bed (cuz we have no chairs ;p) to watch movies.

I like Chinese guy a lot, enough to change some of my behavior, but I dont want to have to give up innocent friendships because he doesn't understand the difference. I dont know how to explain it either without being so blunt that it will definitely embarrass him. I change my dancing when I am with, even when I'm not dancing with him, even though for me dancing is like a crazy sport, because I could see it bothered him for me to move like that or let guys touch me like that. I'm ok with doing that but I still dont wanna lose my friends (I am lonely here. I love it but I am lonely. I love it when some one talks to me in spanish or says hello by kissing me on the cheek). I dont want him to be hurt/sad/confused but I love my friends and how great they are, I love that one was thoughtful enough to bring me flowers. But I think that would upset the guy I like a lot. :/ And I think most especially because economically there's no way he can compete with what my friends can give me so casually, or even with what I can give him.

Ugh. Conundrum.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2011 08:24PM by Msinglynx.

Oh... no biological kids could be a BIG BIG BIG problem if he's a traditional guy like you said. I wish you haven't mentioned to him about that, and never say that unless you two so decided to overcome whatever problems lie in front. There're always solutions...
His comments of asking you to move into his home town is wise as a Chinese. He just wanted you to have more connections with his family, so it is possible to break the stereotypes from his parents. I guess he made the decision after telling his parents about you and unfortunately getting comment as "no elders no foreigners". I think he loves you, literally. The first thing I did when I was seriously in love with the girl is telling my parents. And the most obvious proof is that he said if he had disappointed you. It confused you so much, but yes, it proves that he loves you. You are right he's not "experienced" but he definitely will grow up after getting through this.
I think you've thought too much about loneliness... It's anywhere/anytime with us till we die. We need to handle it as long as we are alive, don't we? It's important for you to be rational as you are in higher level of experience.
May The God brings you happiness. Blessing for you. That's the only word I can say.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2011 11:05PM by Debug1982.

Woah O_O woah, love already! So soon!? Woah. I like him a lot, a lot. But I wont change my mind about having kids,etc. It's related to what he said he likes so much about me (my sense of social responsibility).

Wait! How can you tell he told his parents about me? I know he has posted a bunch of pictures of me on Weibo but he never said anything about parents.

I am overwhelmed, a lot.

Just intuition. His parents said no foreigners, right? Why would they say that ... Or he gave them little clues about you, not the whole story.
Take it easy, finally, you know where you are.

I'm intimidated! Hahaha they think I am very confidant but really I am very nervous and uncertain and timid to show my feelings. It's easier in my culture to act sexual than to really connect or show deep feeling. It's a little scary for me to think like this.

Thank you a lot

Any progress?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 04:31AM by Chinesetolearn.Com.

I made a qq and now we email or chat every day we dont see each other (his school is 2 hours away from mine). Thats it for now. Tomorrow I will see him in person and I will see how he acts. He seems more daring in writing though.

Best wishes.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2011 12:13AM by Chinesetolearn.Com.

That is an interesting website.
Hmm today was interesting. We went out with a large group of friends. He started the night sitting in front of me but somehow people kept switching chairs and all of a sudden he was next to me. He touched me a lot today, not like gross touching but like he left his leg pressed against mine while we ate instead of moving, etc. When I was talking to another Chinese boy I know (who isn't one of the ones we hang out with regularly) he came up behind me and put his arms around my shoulders. I actually assumed it was a western guy friend so I ignored it but then I realized it was him and wanted to kick myself for not putting my arm around his waist. So he did a lot of things like that, like touching my arm or pressing his shoulder to mine, which before he was very careful not to do and it was always me initiating contact.
We didnt get the chance to have any deep conversation this time. My friend Yuki (a 30+ y/o woman) is very excited by my "friendship" with him (cuz he's so much younger and "so open minded for a chinese guy") so she keeps translating my conversations with her (about other guys or past boyfriends etc) into Chinese for him, and things like that.

So, I will assume this is a nice step forward and look forward to our "art adventure" quasi date when I get back from my visa run this week. Hopefully I will get to go dancing with him next weekend.

Smell of evil is out. Someone's opened Pandora's Box?

What do you mean?

It's joking. His 'evil' action takes over so quickly that surprised me. It's good though. I had a roommate in my college who was ready to closely touch his girlfriend after half year's hanging out. It was about 10 years ago.

You could find lots of stories that in the past shying lovers are not brave enough to express their affection to each other, let slip and regret. One story I read about was the girl who uses gesture to say 'I love U' to a boy. The boy misread as 'I am sorry', and married another woman that he's not really in love with, and was so depressed when he finally understood what that gesture means years later.

I gotta say 90s generation accepts multi-culture more quickly than we 80s do...

Hahaha ok yes. I was a little surprised too. I expected/was prepared for a longer wait. I probably wouldn't have waited 6 months tho. Maybe 1 more month ;p. But I think he is staking his claim basically, cuz I get hit on a lot here (a loooot. He actually heard me being very upset today about a Western boy who has been harassing me), even by Chinese guys (we go to a weekly event for people who like traveling and there are 2 Chinese guys there closer to my age who keep asking me out. One works at my school even and the other comes from a completely different city to attend each week) and he knows things move faster in Western culture so he doesnt want me to find some one else. That what I think anyway. I suspect his girl friend might be pushing him to move faster, since she was asking me how people date in Western cultures. Plus I've been posting my QQ status in Chinese with really cute romantic poems ;p so that might have helped too hahaha. Oh! And I listened to what you said about Yves and made it very very obvious that I am not interested in Yves or any other of my guy friends.

But yeah, I told you he was not like most Chinese guys. I already knew he was more confidant/braver/daring because he is willing to dance with me the way we do in my culture, which is considered kind of extreme here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 05:25PM by Msinglynx.

How about post your Chinese poems here.

Just a line from two songs from Chinese to learns website (I love that site, really).
在人多时候 最 沉默 笑 容 也 寂寞, 在 万丈红尘中啊找个人爱我.
看看忙碌的世界是否依然孤独的转个不停

Hmmm, he's touched by the first one. The second one is a hymn.

Tina,
I am glad that you enjoy the site I put on two songs last night, one is those years by 胡夏and the other one is Big sea by Zhang Yu Zheng. Hu Xia is a relatively new singer, but he got great vocal. Zhang Yu Sheng was a famous singer in Taiwan, but he died young in a car wreck.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2011 12:15AM by Chinesetolearn.Com.

Today is my grandfather's birthday so I wrote him "happy birthday" in Chinese (on my QQ status because I like to make it match my facebook, but be in Chinese so I can practice) and called him and my grandma. She told me that the guy I like is "precioso" which means pretty but it's not a word you use for a boy so she was really saying that he is prettier than me (in my culture most women hate for the guy to be better looking than the girl. I dont mind tho ;p). I sent boy a copy of a picture I took of us together on thursday with a message saying that I liked it a lot even tho I never look as cute as him and that my grandma called him "pretty."
His reply kind of surprised me it was so enthusiastic. He asked me to thank my grandmother and said she was so nice. Then he said that HE is the one who feels not cute when next to me (so not true!). His writing seemed really "happy" somehow. He also qq'ed me later to tell me to say happy birthday to my grandfather from him. That seems odd to me cuz in the US we'd only care if we actually knew the grandparents we'd just say "how cute!" or "oh thats nice"

Tina,
that boy is well mannered There is a classic phrase you might want to know about saying happy birthday to an elder person: 祝你福如东海，寿比南山。Zhu4 ( verb, wish) ni3 (second pronoun, you) fu2 (blessing or luck, a noun) ru2 (verb, is like) dong1 hai3 (a proper noun, the East Sea), shou4 (noun, long life) bi3 (verb, compare) nan2 shang1 (proper noun, the South Mountain).
There are a few way to describe the handsomeness of male gender: shuai4 帅(handsome), ying1 jun4 英俊 also means handsome.
Good luck and have fun learning Chinese

Yes he is very cutely polite I love that about him
I know the word shuai, that was one of the first words my bratty dorm mate taught me. He said I could "use it to pick up boys." LOL I think my boy might get too shy if I told him that in Chinese though. I will have to try it out and see what happens.

Shuai 帅 only refers to the handsomeness of a person's appearance, while besides handsomeness, yingjun 英俊 also refers to the inside intelligence. I am going to write an one Chinese sentence a day about the phrase Zheng4 dian3正点, I am sure it is going to be interesting.
Good luck and have fun!

Haha ok I will go see the new phrase.
Now I will send him a text with shuai hahah

Well I did something maybe a little stupid. I wrote a message to his slightly crazy friend to try and figure out what exactly this fiasco is. I know she will probably tell him some of what I said so please somebody tell me if I said something crazy! Damn QQ and my inability to delete! BTW in Western culture, this kind of note would be considered "far too serious, too soon" and would completely destroy a chance for any kind of relationship.


Ting Na 4:15:08 PM
I wonder, why do you push me to Edward? Does he ask you to do this or do you do it because you want to? I can see he likes me, I know this even without you or him saying this. But, I think it would be very hard for him to be with someone like me so I wonder how much is playing?
Ting Na 4:21:47 PM
I think you both are very 无辜 but very young. This troubles me. I feel 调皮 but I dont want to be 腐败影响 (I dont know if this is the right word?)
Ting Na 4:36:55 PM
In America children of 13/14/15 years old act like you and Edward now (I know he shows you my texts). This is cute, I dont want to 堕落 (ruin this). I think maybe Edward not old enough in his mind. I can't ask him this. With Western boys 6 years is nothing, we have the same experience, same knowledge, with you and Edward this difference feels bigger than 6 years some times. That is ok for friends, but for more than friends I think I will hurt him a lot.
I like Edward very much but I am deciding how to act and what to do. I dont know if I explain this well I want to be careful, not hurt anyone.
Ting Na 4:46:20 PM
I dont want Edward to 奔波 trying to act like Western boys. He will get hurt 断心肠 if he not ready. If he is fast, I will go fast, if he is slow, I go slow. I will stop if he tries to catch up to me. I know more so I have to wait for him, not let him 运行快 before he's ready.
Ting Na 4:52:02 PM
If he wants 玩耍 I will play but I 发挥粗糙
Ting Na 4:52:41 PM
Hahahahaa sorry. I hope you understand this. It's very long!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 04:26AM by Msinglynx.

Tina,
it is no big deal. Don't worry about these. This Edward boy knows that you like him, there is no secret here. This girl friend of his, what kind of person she is, or what kind of things she will say or have said, you don't have much control in her. You can tell her what you would like her to do, but, whether or not she will do what you say is hard to say.
Cheer up, everything is fine
If you need a bit translation help with certain phrases, you can post a comment on my website. What you mean by 发挥粗糙 ? Some translator, such google translate, not all accurate, some can be very weird and funny and totally lost too.
Life is a learning process, no matter it is good or bad, think of it as a learning process. Smile, think positive, do your best, and wish for the best.

Msinglynx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I did something maybe a little stupid. I
> wrote a message to his slightly crazy friend to
> try and figure out what exactly this fiasco is. I
> know she will probably tell him some of what I
> said so please somebody tell me if I said
> something crazy! Damn QQ and my inability to
> delete! BTW in Western culture, this kind of note
> would be considered "far too serious, too soon"
> and would completely destroy a chance for any kind
> of relationship.
>
>
> Ting Na 4:15:08 PM
> I wonder, why do you push me to Edward? Does he
> ask you to do this or do you do it because you
> want to? I can see he likes me, I know this even
> without you or him saying this. But, I think it
> would be very hard for him to be with someone like
> me so I wonder how much is playing?
> Ting Na 4:21:47 PM
> I think you both are very 无辜 but very young.
> This troubles me. I feel 调皮 but I dont want to
> be 腐败影响 (I dont know if this is the right
> word?)
> Ting Na 4:36:55 PM
> In America children of 13/14/15 years old act like
> you and Edward now (I know he shows you my texts).
> This is cute, I dont want to 堕落 (ruin this). I
> think maybe Edward not old enough in his mind. I
> can't ask him this. With Western boys 6 years is
> nothing, we have the same experience, same
> knowledge, with you and Edward this difference
> feels bigger than 6 years some times. That is ok
> for friends, but for more than friends I think I
> will hurt him a lot.
> I like Edward very much but I am deciding how to
> act and what to do. I dont know if I explain this
> well I want to be careful, not hurt anyone.
> Ting Na 4:46:20 PM
> I dont want Edward to 奔波 trying to act like
> Western boys. He will get hurt 断心肠 if he not
> ready. If he is fast, I will go fast, if he is
> slow, I go slow. I will stop if he tries to catch
> up to me. I know more so I have to wait for him,
> not let him 运行快 before he's ready.
> Ting Na 4:52:02 PM
> If he wants 玩耍 I will play but I 发挥粗糙
> Ting Na 4:52:41 PM
> Hahahahaa sorry. I hope you understand this. It's
> very long!

Eh,,, I would say, yes, too serious, too soon. If you were Chinese, you are in trouble, you end up with tons of apologies... Now that you are American, things could turn out to be different. He might think you are thoughtful. But don't do this again. You won't get true answer at this level even though you asked. Culture difference is the thing only you could tell in the end. Just love the way you like, change the way you want.

I guess 发挥粗糙 refers to behaving sexy. Normally Chinese are not opposed to be sexy, but we definitely don't honor treating relationship as game play(玩耍). This word gives the wrong direction that as if you are not serious in the role, just for fun. At least that's my first impression. So try avoiding this word..
You just say '受伤' for hurt, 断心肠 is too art.
'奔波' is not precise here, you could say '受累'
'运行快' is normally used on computers, not human. Better use 加快节奏.
'堕落' means corrupted. To express 'ruin this', you can say 毁了这一切
'调皮' is excellent word here
'腐败' is a little bit weird here, but it's ok. Only '腐败' is enough, '影响' is not necessary.
'无辜' is improper here, I know what you mean, but I can't find any fit here. I would choose not to say

Enjoy Chinese learning.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 10:55AM by Debug1982.

Ah, too late but thank you with translation!
hmm just had a very strange conversation with his friend. I am very confused now. She understood what I meant though. I wont post it all here but basically she said:

"I understand what you mean. I am surprised to hear this.
I am not sure what things (he did to) makes you feel this way.and I forgot when I push you to him~did I do this? really sorry ~
First, we all like you so much! you are a very humorous girl!You always make us smile, we have a lot of fun together. Although you older than us, we didn’t feel any difference between us. Of course we learning a lot from you.and you always honest to us.this is why I like you, this is a basic part of friendship.
Secondly I think (he) easy to let others feel sincere. I know he was good to his friends. Will often help his good friend and very considerate. Maybe sometimes more than the friends act. But I think it can accept in Canton.cos I have a friend who is a boy and know some girlfriends also have a few Heterosexual Friends（异性朋友） from Canton will do this to us. It’s friendly act. And is only close friend will do.so you are very important.last but not least I know (he) like Loli style much better. Of course maybe is not Completely absolute in sometime."

So now I wonder if I misunderstood a lot, looooooooooot. -_-
When I ask her why she said "go after your target" and turn my face to him she says she does not remember and apologizes. I dont know what to think of this. But later on she tells me that they are not close, close friends (he also told me something like this. That he only tells her because she asks "what has msinglynx texted you today? what are you doing this week?" and he said he only bring them with him to meet me the first time because he really want to meet me but doesnt like to go alone.

Then I asked her "remember I asked if he is your boyfriend, you said he has a girlfriend?" she said "oh! Yes, he told me yesterday, he is thinking of breaking up (maybe he will break up)." But I asked him directly if he had one and he said very certainly "I am single" so now I know he lied to me but I dont understand why

So, in the end, I said I must be more careful of him, that he is not so honest as I think and she promises to always be honest with me. Then we started talking about 自闭症.


So yea. Now I am super confused and paranoid. I noticed he is been a little bit distant this week, now I wonder if it is this thing with his girlfriend. I dont like this at all. I feel stupid and too trusting. I'm nervous about what will happen when I see him next week. I have to see him because he is so brilliant as a photographer that I added him to my network and got him a shared job with me (I am a writer). Sigh, now I will have to act only as a friend. That is a lot of limits.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I am not opposed to that, but I want to know if it is only that. They are different kinds of relationships with different rules. I dont really want this kind of relationship though, it is never satisfying emotionally.
I dont know if I mentioned this before, I have 自闭症 so, if I dont understand I have to ask. This gets me in trouble some times because my 自闭症 is not something people can see, it is something I work very hard to hide. But for me, all cultures are foreign (even "my own") and I have to learn by asking questions or reading instead of just learning by watching like most other people can. So, because I dont have typical/normal human instincts, I learn skills by looking for patterns of behavior. This is how learn to interact, first with the whole community, then as individuals. I learn what each person's pattern is (body language, actions, behavior, manner of speaking, religious and moral beliefs, etc) and when they break those patterns I know they are lying or etc. Before I learn to do this I had no ability to judge what is happening around, I was a danger to myself because I didnt know if my body language is too sexy saying "come here" when in my mind I am thinking "I want to run away!" or I dont notice when someone is going to hurt me. I have become very very skilled at this, even taking acting classes and speaking classes to correct my intonation and body language. I thought I had gotten so good at it that it is now not even noticeable.

So, I am very bothered because I thought (this boy's) pattern was very sincere and pure hearted and now I wonder if I am not so skilled at this as I thought or if it is just because the culture is so different that now I will have to learn a completely new set of patterns.

Debug1982 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess 发挥粗糙 refers to behaving sexy.
> Normally Chinese are not opposed to be sexy, but
> we definitely don't honor treating relationship as
> game play(玩耍). This word gives the wrong
> direction that as if you are not serious in the
> role, just for fun. At least that's my first
> impression. So try avoiding this word..