For confusion about whether she pushed you or not, please refer to "lose face" topics and review what she said again
For your boyfriend's girlfriend, you apparently peered into something dark or grey.. Maybe it's not too bad though.

Msinglynx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I am very bothered because I thought (this
> boy's) pattern was very sincere and pure hearted
> and now I wonder if I am not so skilled at this as
> I thought or if it is just because the culture is
> so different that now I will have to learn a
> completely new set of patterns.
>

Autism is really annoying! I know this word after I came to the states, and realize that I have always carry this terrible thing with me, never treated. Chinese education system cares nothing about it...
Yes, you need reconsider and develop your culture awareness here. The patterns in America definitely do not apply here. It doesn't always mean you should go the opposite way from what you learnt. There are lots of patterns about social communication, but I don't believe there is a single pattern in China to protect yourself. The only pattern that is absolutely right is everything is changing, just like city's look -- everyday you see new constructions. If you follow one pattern, you could win or lose. I don't know if it upsets you, but it's the fact.

I mean mm (this is hard to explain), there is a general sort of large pattern, say for a whole country, like my country, that pattern breaks into smaller patterns according to different things (religion or political systems and belief) then those patterns break into smaller patterns until ultimately they become individual people. They are very large, complex, interwoven patterns and each person performs a function within their pattern. This is how I know where I am in relation to others and how to act as well as what behavior is acceptable FROM others. I am very intelligent but many people do not realize how much, because so much of my brain is used to organize this kind of information and to process it in a way that I can understand that there is not as much room for other things. For most people this comes instinctively, they do not "see" patterns because they do not need to look so deeply. They call this "uneven learning ability" or something like that. So, my intellect and ability to analyze and process data is very developed but emotionally I am very child-like and guileless (I dont have the ability to lie. I can act but that is very different).

So what I mean is, I have watched this boy's pattern and this lie he told me does not fit his pattern, which means I have made a mistake and he maybe is not who I think. His girl friend very much fits her pattern, that is how I know it is ok to send her this question.

Anyway, before when I first learned I have autism I felt very relieved, before that I felt crazy, lonely, unhappy, my family is always disappointed in me. Now I understand what I will never be able to understand, I work hard and try to make up for what I dont have. In my country my father also feels that admitting to having autism is "losing face" he wants me to "act normal" but I dont know how to do this. Now I know acting, I can pretend for a bit, I can make friends and some people like me (some find me too immature and annoying), they try to protect me always. But I dont think admitting my difficulties or asking for help is losing face (hahah I guess this is very NOT Chinese of me hehehe), I think working hard despite my difficulties saves me face :p I'm not ashamed of my autism, I think I am a good person in part because of it. I hope you also learn this, you can make what you want of autism and be who you want, its not a curse, just a different way of processing information. My family and my culture hurt me and trap me more than autism ever has -_-
*****************************************

I dont understand what you mean about her losing face? Do you mean that even if she does push me (she most definitely does, this is too obvious even for Western people, very very obvious for Chinese people) she can not admit the reason why she is doing it or that she does it intentionally?

Meh GF gray area. This is how I think:
He knows I like him, I know he likes me since the second time we met but I knew he was not thinking to do anything about it. Then, his friend pushes me (literally to him), to dance with him, kiss him, only look at him, etc. We talk directly, he asks where I will go when I leave China, would I ever move to his home city. I dont know. I ask if he has a GF. He says no. That is not an accident. This must mean:
1. He wants to cheat (play around). I wont do this.
2. He likes me and wants to date eventually but does not want me to know a.he already has had a relationship (silly, I have had many as normal in my culture)or b.he does not value/appreciate/love his current girlfriend (this is very bad, why stay with someone if you have no feelings? I dont understand this).
3. He is tired of his GF/family expectation/whatever and wants a more independent situation (not necessarily relationship).
After this was the night he hugged me. I can see this on his face often, he is wanting to do/say something and always decides not to. This time he follows his instincts. Next time after this he touches me all night. I pay attention, I notice he is bothered because I touch a lot of people often but he does not touch any one else, even his good friend, he does not lean against her, etc. So this touching has some kind of meaning.

So I still do think he likes me, maybe because I am so different from his normal likes, I dont know. But I think no matter the reason, it is a bad thing that he lied to me, especially if (as you say) he moves pretty fast for a Chinese boy. I know he treats me a little bit different and some of the things I say hurt him. And if I say shocking things (like I mentioned a boy who wants to sleep with me) he will turn red when I say this but not if any one else says something similar. In those cases he asks questions and says what he wants, with me he stops himself very often. So now I am at a loss as to what to do, if anything at all.

Hmm, That's interesting. I have noticed what you said about social system being broken down into small parts is everywhere. People summarized them, generalize them. These become the patterns that come out to guide young people what to follow and how to fit into the big mass world. Thank you for your advice, I am learning these very hard.

In China patterns are also there that you must follow in order to make friends, join activities or win business. e.g. you must drink and eat before jumping into business, handing some money to the officer if you really want to pass the road test, etc.

Ah, it's hard to explain my thoughts. What I said about the general pattern that "everything is changing" is the philosophy that deeply branded in our nation. When we have to face to the fast paced changing world, betrayal from friends, lies from lover or emotional downturns, we stay calm and stick to what we believe. If you hear someone say "以不变应万变", that what I mean. I believe this is essence of Ancient Chinese religion(道教). In your situation, this could mean you keep your relationship as before from outside, but deep inside you will have to answer those questions as time goes by. The first reaction when you were lied to is to distrust him emotionally, but there might be some reasons that's not easy to speak of. Hmm, I hope I explain it right -- I am not persuading you to do that way though..

The reason I thought about her losing face is simple. She obviously sensed awkward situation between you and Edward. So you talked about she pushing you to him is sort of like blaming what she did that make the consequence. That's why she felt losing face. Well, that's my guess. You don't have to confirm this because if you did, that would be a real "losing face"... "Losing face" doesn't need to be in public. It also happens in private conversation.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 04:10PM by Debug1982.

ahhhhhhh I understand. But this also means she probably wont tell him what we talked about right? Because it might be loss of face in front of him, too? And also, is there a way to explain I wasn't blaming her but just curious because how she acts towards her friend helps me understand him better, as well as her. If she volunteers to do this, it shows she thinks he is a good guy, that she thinks we match well. If he asked her, that means he is insecure, which means he is not ready/strong enough in his mind.

In the USA any one would tell everyone. Could never keep this type of conversation/question private because people are more eager to be cruel than save face.


Hahaha yes, patterns are every where. I think people who are not autistic do not call them "patterns" maybe "social order" or "moral codes" but it is still the same thing: a general sort of way to predict what may happen and plan for it, which is especially important if it is difficult for you to be spontaneous. Growing older is a blessing for people with autism because we become more "able" as we experience more things, so the more things you do/see/feel/experience, the more "normal" you will become in time (I think).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 04:24PM by Msinglynx.

I understand this "以不变应万变" I dont believe it. Reason to do things because they have always been done so is no reason at all! "harmonious society" at least makes more sense than that :/ For now, I will try not to think anything. I will wait and see what happens but I will go slow again, go back to being more casual with him, and flirty with my friends like before. Maybe a small barrier, he can cross it but he will have to work for it, I wont give it away :p

I will wait and see how he acts. If he really breaks up, hmm...

Msinglynx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> for you to be spontaneous. Growing older is a
> blessing for people with autism because we become
> more "able" as we experience more things, so the
> more things you do/see/feel/experience, the more
> "normal" you will become in time (I think).


So right！ That's exactly what I told my workmate when he knew his kid has got autism.
Well, losing face normally happens when someone did something wrong, but unwilling to be criticized. He/she feels guilty inside, but cannot accept that fact that people look down on him/her.
As of whether she would tell, I can't predict, haha

ah! SO strange. She has done nothing wrong. How funny...

She was afraid of doing something wrong. Or maybe she did, like she knew he has a girlfriend but still... Ah, I am not going to stir into these......

hahaha ok. Eh, I'm off to Hong Kong. I will post an update next week maybe.

Enjoy your trip.

Tina,
It is not an easy situation, but, keep a grateful heart -- thank him for the good time you had, and the experience that you had or will have. Think more before you do things, so you won't regret later. Have a good time in Hong Kong. Do you know the song that you like a lot, Liu Dehua is from Hong Kong?
Take care and have fun traveling.

My Chinese guy friend said to "test him." I dont know how to do that so tonight when I go to dinner (we have a big group family style dinner each week) I am bringing 5 of my guy friends, including 2 chinese guys: 1 the guy that he made a point of putting his arm around me in front of and another who is the room mate of a western friend of mine, whom he has never met but whom I have a very open western style friendship with.

So, I guess I will report back after dinner ;p

Hope things went well. Happy Thanksgiving to you!!!感恩节快乐 gan3 en1 jie2 kuai4 le4! Did you eat turkey there?

Nope just awesome Chinese food. Good thing though cuz I hate American food, especially turkey.

Lesse, what happened yesterday? Um he looked gorgeous. Like especially so, and for some reason finally took off his hat. I played his hair a couple of times and he said "stooooop itttt" but didnt really seem to want me to. Other than that he has taken to calling me for things that would be more easily responded to by text, like to say "did you eat?" or "where are you?" and then we chat for a bit before it peters out into confused silence and we both hang up in a rush.
Dinner was cool. I made my friend move so the only empty space for him to sit was next to me. Strangely the only seats left when my friends and I arrived were on totally the opposite end of the very long table (there were 20 of us) from the other Chinese guy that he apparently considers a threat. He got on super well with my friend's room mate. My older female Chinese friend is still very enthusiastically teasing him about me and arranging scenarios for him and I to sit next to each other. I gave him a gift of a print making tool (a little wood carving thing for art prints) and asked me to teach him how to use it so this week he and I are going out alone together 3 times O_O first tomorrow we are going to dinner at the house of a spanish artist (I was invited and asked if I could bring him because I knew he would love it), then we have to go eat for that shared job (article/photographs of sichuan food) and finally we are going to meet so I can teach him how to use his gift and then we are going to wonder around town looking for "hidden art" and trying hard to communicate our opinions to each other.

So, I still dunno where this whole GF situation is gonna end up. We seem to be getting closer though and his female friend has invited me to spend the January holiday with her family in his hometown (just a few blocks from him) and I am pretty sure he knows that is happening. He asked me what I saw in his hometown while I passed through to HK and seemed disappointed I didnt get to see anything. I apologized and he got agitated and said "stop saying sorry!"

So yea... I'm lost, but I'm having fun. He's sick but may come dancing with our friends tonight. I really hope so. If not I will see him tomorrow for dinner at the artist's studio. I will update soon I guess ;p

PS. I like him even more now that I haven't seem him in 2 week. I felt uncertain yesterday, thinking to myself "he's too young, I'm too bitter/old/weird/different, I dont know him/maybe he isnt who I thought, I'm probably just imagining thing, etc" but today I feel more certain. I really do like him very much. -_-

It seems good, this situation I mean. "Follow your heart" + "follow your brain" + "enjoy the ride" = more and more good time to create and remember .....
Good luck!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


last night was so awful! Sooooo awful I want to cry!
I feel like an idiot.

Last night everyone meets at my room, 6 girls and one gay chinese boy (none of our chinese friend know he is gay). Boy is going to meet us at the club in one hour. But everyone is sooo late. He waits more than 1 hour for us to come (he does not want to come meet at my room, I dont know why) and is angry, I dont know at who. My gay friend keeps pulling me away saying no dont talk to him, it is weird it is weird. I go with his female friend to eat. My foreign friend goes inside to dance. Gay friend, boy and older woman friend (boy calls her "my big sis") stay outside talking, gay friend keeps calling me to hurry hurry. I go to where everyone is standing, they dont know whether to go inside or not, but dont tell me why, jut keep asking if I am sure I want to stay here. We go inside for a bit, it is awful, very crowded, loud. Gay boy tells me "the truth is he does not like it here". My chinese girl friends disappear outside. Then older woman and boy "go for air" and dont come back. Gay friend and foreign friend are having fun but I know something is very wrong. Boy is avoiding me, has been acting a little different for about 2 weeks but I ignored it. My foreign friend and I try to buy a bottle but it is soo expensive and we dont have enough cash, then she put her ATM pin number in wrong. She and gay friend go to find an ATM and I get left alone at the table. My other foreign friend comes to find me but cant see or hear me in the crowd. Finally my friends come back from ATM and I go to look for other foreign friend. No one knows where she is. I go to stand by boy and older woman and boy says "we are entertained, we are talking" with very strong "go away" feeling. I am shocked, I go and look more for my friend, find the Chinese girls and sit with them. Boy and older woman come to sit with us. Older woman say very carefully that they do not want to hurt me, do not like the club, they find it disrespectful and not fun. I am upset, I say "I am not Chinese, I wont feel bad if you tell me something directly. Please tell me if you are not comfortable. I am not happy if my friends are not happy." Chinese girl says "but you want to come dancing so much" and I say "I dont care where, I just want to have fun with my friends" and she hug me. Other girls also say they are not comfortable, I tell them all pointing "tell me strait, always" and point at boy "you especially, because you always stop yourself." But he says "its ok, I dont care where we go, I dont have a problem with this place."

I get my other friends and we agree to go to another place. This one is much nicer, full too but feels better, nice music and people, lots of foreigners and people from my school.

I teach gay friend to dance like a western/foreign boy. But boy is still avoiding me, still going out for air with older woman. Foreign boys keep grabbing me to dance, I dance with a lot. Boy acts like avoiding me most of the night, though sometimes he dances with me. A tiny cute blonde girl from my school keeps stealing him when he dances with me, she pulls his hair out of the ponytail and messes him up. I am sooo jealous but he likes dancing with her I can tell, he is more comfortable. When he dances with me he always seem nervous, self conscious. He starts to talk to me a little inside but it is all strange, a little distant.

My gay friend gets too drunk and sick so I watch him a while but then a foreign guy I know kisses my very traditional Chinese girl friend (the friend who I talk to about boy) and they start making out. At first I am happy but then a little bothered by my guy friend, he is acting too "look at me, I kissed the girl!" with his friends. Older woman and boy are worried too. I start to feel sick, everything is strange and crazy, no one is themself, no one is comfortable. I get water and decide to go out for air.

After a little bit boy comes out to sit with me. I am somehow not surprised. He doesnt say anything about avoiding me all night. We have a wonderful deep conversation, the kind I never get to have. He understands real me, deep me that I always hide. We talk about family expectation, our brothers, some bad memories. I tell him I am afraid of eyes, he asks what color, I tell him green, like an animals eyes. He says why do I wear green contacts then? I tell him inside I am so so so shy, sometimes I put on a mask, I hide myself and smile, laugh and act, this is not me. I dont want everyone to know the real me. He understands this, he says "not everyone deserves to see real deep." Later we talk about his friend, he is worried about her tomorrow, how will she feel when she wakes? And he worries about my friend, who is too proud of getting the girl, too obvious with hi friends. He asks me if he should worry, if my friend is serious. I dont know what is serious, he says bf/gf, says his friend has never been kissed. I think (I know) my friend is moving too too fast. I dont know but I think yes, this pride is not good. I tell him I am also a little worried. But I try to explain, our cultures are soooo so so different. My friend is still acting normal for our culture, still acceptable. I explain he will most definitely have much more experience than the girl, that probably most foreign people have (on average) more experience than most chinese people (I meant traditional people). This bothers him a lot, he argues and finally speaks clearly, starts to say something about his sexual experience then stops himself. Finally he says if he likes a girl for real he will go slow (I assume he implies if he doesnt care too much he has no problem having sex). I say something about western boys move more aware of their body (soo hard to put these thoughts into short sentences for him, none of it is clear) more aware of their sexual nature and he becomes frustrated, he says he can be like this too (I know he is talking about my dancing even if he isnt specific) but he refuses to be, he does not want to use his body in this way. I try to explain western people are sexualized much much younger. He agrees with this but he tells me it is just a difference of style, not a cant do but a prefer not to. He asks me what I think about relationships, what kind I want, I say I think it will be hard to find someone to love me, then our friends interrupt. But not before he tells me he likes a girl very much, that they are just just starting, that he broke up with his girlfriend a month ago (before he knew this girl who I also know, she is very nice and she is younger than me, though still older than him).

So yes... I am crushed. I feel so so sooo bad. Because I think he really did like me before but he likes her more now (though he told me it is too soon, it is still a secret, not to tell her). I remind myself "let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments..." but inside I want to cry. He understands me, more than anyone I have ever met. Every time I see him he surprises me somehow with his sensitive nature. I even want to be LIKE him if that makes sense.

I am so sad.

We all (him, I and older friend) slept over at a friends house and boy and I left together at 8am talking comfortably, making jokes. I am playing the good friend. But I sent him a text, it says "I think this: what you said last night about different "styles" will eat my soul. Reminds me of all I regret. I am a little jealous of your girl."
Because I never chose my over sexualized style and I never got to tell him this: I hate it. I hate it so so so much but I cant get away from it. My culture always will force it on me so I accept what I cant change but I feel so so dirty. And I want something so sweet and pure.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2011 09:25PM by Msinglynx.

It is ok. You can't predict what other people will do or will act. So, don't be to hard on yourself. You are a nice girl, and you are considerate toward others' feeling. So, be good to yourself first.
There is a quote: Love yourself first and everything else falls into line. You really have to love yourself to get anything done in this world.
Take care, everything will be fine.

And now he is talking to me a ton, sending me tons of texts, chatting on QQ with honesty. Ugh I think playing the good friend is going to completely break my heart. Sigh, I hope I can get distracted from him soon. I like him more every time he understands me perfectly despite our different cultures and barely adequate language.

You never know what will happen next, keep a positive outlook for things. Enjoy the life and try to see things from the silver lining -- but most of all, just be yourself -- one in trillions and more

I know he liked me before I went to Hong Kong. He hugged me and thanked me for giving him permission to call. What the heck happened? It was only 2 weeks -_- guess I cant compete with a Chinese girl.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2011 06:27PM by Msinglynx.

You will find one better Don't be discouraged. American girls rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Either he sent you the wrong clue or he changed his mind. But, anyways, it is an experience to remember -- good or bad, sad or glad -- all in your memory which no one can steal. Thank him for the memories then? Now I need to find a song about memory to work on tomorrow's one Chinese sentence a day. Have a good Sunday there.
Here is a quote you might like it: To look backward for a while is to refresh the eye, to restore it, and to render it the more fit for its prime function of looking forward. ~Margaret Fairless Barber, The Roadmender

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2011 05:36AM by Chinesetolearn.Com.

My friend here says "stay close, stay talking, it is new, you can still get him." I gave him a chance to put some distance between us today, to treat this article thing as just professional by paying since I make more, but he chose to make it personal by sharing cost (basically he will spend all his earnings), told me doesnt care about the money he will earn, he just wants to enjoy time "with my friend" (me).
I think I will wait a little. Young boys grow up eventually right? I wont wait forever but for a bit, yea I think he is worth it. I will be his "treasured friend" for now. Maybe he will realize doing what his family wishes in everything will not make him happy when he is independent.
I dont know why, suddenly I feel every time we talk we get closer and closer.

While there's life, there's hope Did you read that One Chinese sentence a day yet? 留得青山在，不怕没柴烧？ It is a wise Chinese proverb, check it out. Have fun

How's that jerk?

As sweet, polite, gentlemanly and DENSE as ever :p

We've been talking on QQ pretty much every day. Very personal and intense conversations about things like our personal moral belief, familial responsibility, culture, social value and so on. Best conversations I've ever had. Sigh. I like him more and more.... I think he likes my mind, I think my "trashy" (ie western/sexualized) behavior is what is putting him off me. It seems to confuse him and make him think I like everyone or at least dont like him in particular.

Keep marching on, and hope you will have that sweet Chinese jerk boy soon

Something weird is happening.

I think older woman friend is trying to sabotage things. I have had both chinese and western people tell me that she is acting really weird with boy, especially towards me. Every time boy and I get to talk alone for a few minutes she runs over and interrupts and has to be dragged away (literally), she never does this unless I am talking to him alone. Also, if I am seated next to him at dinner she will sometimes try to make me move so she can sit next to him, even if he chose to sit on my side furthest from her. And if he says something to me, or say serves me food, she immediately starts talking really loud to interrupt and get his attention or ask him to serve her some of whatever food we are having.

Today we went out for dinner, a much smaller group of closer friends. Boy was very friendly to me, very physically open, putting his arm around me, patting me and so on, and very open when talking to me, like brushing my hair from my ear to whisper to me and so on. He chose to sit next to me at dinner (of course older woman was being very strange, enough that all my western friends noticed), and was very attentive. He also invited me to a party. When we headed upstairs to the area where we hang out (where the girl he said he liked hosts a weekly event) he did not talk to her or even look at her the entire night! He instead stayed close to our mutual friends and me the entire night.

My friends keep asking me "are you SURE he likes her? They didnt even talk!" so now I am more confused than ever. Maybe he realized I was trying to make him jealous dancing with other guys and he decided to make me jealous instead?

That guy loves you. You should say Yay