Why?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2010 10:55PM by Olive.

I left the United States because I wanted to experience what it was like to live in other cultures surrounded by people and situations that are totally new and different to me. I learned to speak Spanish first, so I went to Central and South America. Next, I wanted to learn Chinese and experience life very far away, so I came to China. Maybe next will be South Korea or Japan. There are other countries I am considering too. If I get homesick, I can always go back to the USA.

I think that many westerners come to China looking for a job or to study Chinese, some come here just to see what life in a lower-tier country is like, and some come here for "bad" reasons like a 55-year-old man trying to buy an 18-year-old wife or westerners that can't get girls in their own country but can have sex with a lot of different naive Chinese girls.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2010 11:44PM by Olive.

I came to China for the same reason that Xietingfeng; after having passed on year in UK, I wanted to spend one year in China. Seven years later I'm still there. Many reasons: people are nice, I've started some business... But another important point and I think this is maybe the most important reason why foreigners stay there, life is cheap!

It's easy for a foreigner to get a high salary by working few hours a week. By "high" I mean compared to local salary and local living cost; for example a foreign teacher with no experience can still make 3 times the average salary in any city. Average salary in Guilin is 1500Y, a foreign teacher make at least 4000Y/month. The average salary in France is maybe 1500€/month, imagine if any foreigner could find a job and make 4000€/month with an appartment paid by working 12 hours a week! How many would leave?

Life is always easy when you are rich, wherever this place is. And for the moment it's easy to be rich for a Westerner in China.

But I still miss France a lot, especially the food, and will probably come back in a few years.

I know a lot of Chinese are confused by this and it leads to some people claiming only people who couldn't make it back home come to China but the reality is most foreigners come here because they enjoy traveling and seeing new cultures. Many stay because, while the standard of living isn't as high, you can have a very simple, happy and carefree life here as a foreigner.

Although a lot of westerners would not admit it openly, they are fascinated by Chinese culture and business success. Most are in China to try to see what makes China tick, hoping to learn some secrets they can take home with them. Chinese are, by virtue, hardworking and well-educated people. Our work culture is simple - you work, you eat. You laze, you starve. We don't believe in a welfare state where the government feeds lazy and jobless people (which has made many western countries bankrupt).

It's common to hear of westerners coming to China initially for a short term but end up staying a lifetime. Chinese people are courteous and polite and most of them view westerners with curiosity. Very few Chinese are racists and hate crimes are extremely rare. Life in China is good.

Obviously Astroboy is only talking for himself as a foreigner in China. Very few foriegners come here to see how China makes money, we already know, 1.3 billion people, and very few actually stay here for life as, while the life is fun, living standards are much lower and medical care here is still catching up.

Hey, it’s sort of true if you need to leave your own country to find gf, pretty much there is a problem here. I knew so many guys into “Asian girls”, I wonder why they can’t find a gf here in North America, while I am not white, but I don’t consider relocating to search for gf.

Well, China got good opportunities, with GDP growth two digit every year, you are not going to see anything close to that here.

Are you kidding yourself? Fewer racial tension? I won’t go as far as to that level, slow down dude. If you are none white, you are fxxxed when it comes to rent a place or negotiate higher wage. What if you are gay/lesbian?

Health care system is shit dude, even rich people worry about that? they have to pass red envelope stuff with cash to the doctor in order to find better treatment/jump queue. If you are rich and famous, of course, China is good.

People like me, we are poor lower class citizen in China, of course I wanna come to Canada, well you deserve respect and hard working reward….simply I do not have “guanxi” in China or money which can it.

[quote=Uberche]we already know, 1.3 billion people[/quote]
Wrong. I wish people would STOP thinking that there's STILL 1.3 BILLION Chinese people in China. It's true, they did have up to and even a little more than 1.3 BILLION Chinese people in China. That was before the Wenchun earthquake in Sichuan, China on May 12, 2008 before the Olympics on August 8, 2008 in Beijing, China!

Besides that, if you add all the foreigners going there, then you'd have MORE THAN 1.3 BILLION people in China.

Seems only fair - if Chinese want to live abroad, if ANY people from ANY country want to live abroad, then what right do they have to tell foreigners to leave their country?

And is this person saying that China is "a rich country"? Waaa! The government may be rich, the small percentage of millionaires might be rich, but overall the life of the average Chinese is still much poorer than most of the countries that the foreigners are coming from. I think you'd find that most foreigners that come here do NOT want to live here long term. Some do, but most do not - living standard is much lower than 1st-tier countries.

By the way, do Chinese realize that their current economic success only occurred AFTER the government opened up their borders and foreigners started coming here? If the government did what some wanted to, all of the momentum the Chinese economy has now would reverse, and in a generation the Chinese would be back to being the butt of jokes worldwide. Instead of dooming innocent children to such a life, why don't the zealots just move to North Korea?

The idea that foreigners bring in money to make China prosperous is a myth. Yeah, two-way trade is good. Both sides benefit. But China's huge economy has also helped to save many US enterprises from bankruptcy. eg General Motors would be dead if it weren't for China market. Likewise Volvo would be dead if not for Geely. And so many other cases.

China has done much good for world economy. Some economists say, if it weren't for China's trillions propping up the US economy and China's unstoppable GDP growth during the global crisis, we would all be screwed. Many jobless and retrenched westerners are now gainfully employed in China so these people ought to be grateful for China's generosity and not sow discontent and spread lies about 1st tier, 2nd tier nonsense.

There are folks in China living in caves who have a much better life than some impoverished black kid trying to eke out an existence by robbing others in the streets of Harlem. Life is cheap in American ghettoes.

Astroboy Wrote:
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> The idea that foreigners bring in money to make
> China prosperous is a myth.

Yeah, the massive influx of foreign businesses was just coincidence. In fact they didn't help China at all! I see your economics is as great as your logic skills...

> Yeah, two-way trade is
> good. Both sides benefit. But China's huge economy
> has also helped to save many US enterprises from
> bankruptcy. eg General Motors would be dead if it
> weren't for China market. Likewise Volvo would be
> dead if not for Geely. And so many other cases.

Agreed, but this completely invalidates what you said above. China has helped the West and the West has helped China. But the idea that it's even is a joke. China was a poorly developed third world nation before foreign money flooded this country, China has benefited far more than the West, which has seen it's money disappear and jobs also disappear. The USA needed China's help during the economic crash because trillions of US dollars are now in China due to the trade imbalance.

> China has done much good for world economy. Some
> economists say, if it weren't for China's
> trillions propping up the US economy and China's
> unstoppable GDP growth during the global crisis,
> we would all be screwed.

Very true.

> Many jobless and
> retrenched westerners are now gainfully employed
> in China so these people ought to be grateful for
> China's generosity and not sow discontent and
> spread lies about 1st tier, 2nd tier nonsense.

And Chinese people should be grateful for all the foreigners have done for China and stop spreading lies and idiocy about them, seems both sides aren't living up to the ideal.

> There are folks in China living in caves who have
> a much better life than some impoverished black
> kid trying to eke out an existence by robbing
> others in the streets of Harlem. Life is cheap in
> American ghettoes.

Life is cheap everywhere. China has impoverished people and so does the West. Such is life.

Yeah, I'm a loser because I live in China. So what does that make Chinese people? A country of losers? Their country is so shitty that only a loser would want to live here?

Wow... you should be nicer to China, it has it's problems but there's lots good here! Stop being negative about China all the time!

Loser.

I have a feeling that most foreigners are not staying in China because they are a "loser" in their home country. I WILL agree that many people come to China and stay here because they can do things, or get away with certain behaviors, that they cannot in their own country. For example, a lot of older men like to come here because they can find a young girlfriend. But there are just as many old Chinese men looking for a young girlfriend, and the majority of foreigners you will see in China are actually involved with other foreigners and not Chinese. A lot of people also come here because they have enough money to live comfortably in China, while their own country is more expensive - but that often is a CHOICE. It is not that they cannot make it in their own country, they just choose an easier life. I could go back to America and make in one month what the average Chinese makes in a year, but for now I choose to stay here. Most foreigners are here unwillingly as part of a work assignment or just here on vacation or having fun, and while there are some "losers" who escape to China, they are a small minority. On that note, I agree with Uberche - you seem to be saying that China is a country where even the "losers" can live and be happy? Don't you want to improve that situation? You won't do it be having all foreigners and foreign business and trade relations go home which seems to be what you are asking for.

I think what Chinarock is trying to say is that a lot of westerners cannot make it in their home countries. Hence they come to China to get a job, especially in teaching where the entry criteria is almost laughable. It's a well-known fact that ANYONE whose skin is white can get a teaching position in China, regardless of whether that person is actually proficient in English or not.

Even from my informal discussions with white folks in this forum, I get the feeling that the no one here is exactly up to my standards where English is concerned, apologies if I sound like blowing my horn. But its a fact, nonetheless. Simple words like "cum" can be misunderstood. While someone else thinks the proverbial phrase "sucking eggs" actually means drilling a hole in the egg and sucking from it.

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think what Chinarock is trying to say is that a
> lot of westerners cannot make it in their home
> countries. Hence they come to China to get a job,
> especially in teaching where the entry criteria is
> almost laughable. It's a well-known fact that
> ANYONE whose skin is white can get a teaching
> position in China, regardless of whether that
> person is actually proficient in English or not.

We know what he's saying but he's an ignorant fool, funny how you agree with him.

If the only foreigners who come to China are losers, and so many Chinese girls would rather date foreigners than Chinese males... what does that say about Chinese males?

And I'm not saying they are losers, as many Chinese guys are cool, I'm saying some losers come, some business men come, some travelers come. Some of all stay and find interesting things to do here but most leave after a year. It's the way traveling works. I guess once Chinese people are able to freely travel they'll start to understand a little better. Shouldn't blame people like Chinarock for being completely ignorant of something he hasn't been able to experience yet I guess.

I guess it's a matter of perception.
0.00000001% out of 1.3 bil might sound like "many" for a westerner, I guess.

Almost every decent Chinese woman I come across in China, would not care to hang out with a westerner nor bother to learn English, despite my lectures about how important it is as an international language. I guess the percentage of wannabes might be higher in big cities like BJ, where women with loose morality would sleep with any white, black, red or purple just for the novelty of having bagged a foreigner. Be careful about them, though. Most of them are HIV+.

> If the only foreigners who come to China are
> losers, and so many Chinese girls would rather
> date foreigners than Chinese males... what does
> that say about Chinese males?

why you are so racist? you know those comments here don't make you sound like reasonable person.


Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess it's a matter of perception.
> 0.00000001% out of 1.3 bil might sound like "many"
> for a westerner, I guess.
>
> Almost every decent Chinese woman I come across in
> China, would not care to hang out with a westerner
> nor bother to learn English, despite my lectures
> about how important it is as an international
> language. I guess the percentage of wannabes might
> be higher in big cities like BJ, where women with
> loose morality would sleep with any white, black,
> red or purple just for the novelty of having
> bagged a foreigner. Be careful about them, though.
> Most of them are HIV+.
>
> > If the only foreigners who come to China are
> > losers, and so many Chinese girls would rather
> > date foreigners than Chinese males... what does
> > that say about Chinese males?

Astroboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost every decent Chinese woman I come across in
> China, would not care to hang out with a westerner
> nor bother to learn English, despite my lectures
> about how important it is as an international
> language.

I guess your idea of decent is different than mine, I like intelligent, self confident and non-abused girls, you like the girls who are ok with three girls dating one guy at the same time... You can keep them.

> I guess the percentage of wannabes might
> be higher in big cities like BJ, where women with
> loose morality would sleep with any white, black,
> red or purple just for the novelty of having
> bagged a foreigner. Be careful about them, though.
> Most of them are HIV+.

haha You're a joke. A sad, pathetic joke.

my opinion is simple:foreigner who ztay in China for more than 5 years as an english teacher(for entertainment actually) to selling his mother tongue and his caucasian face is a loser,he has nothing to dsiplay except his mother tongue and caucasian face,such foreigners are losers,or at least they were very mixfit back home,so have to run to a coutnry with totally different culture for some comfort.lol
Uberche might fit that type,regardless how shy he is to tell his miserable past.lol

I'm glad that you prefaced your words with "my opinion". You are entitled to your opinion, whether right or ridiculously, hilariously, and oh-my-what-a-moron wrong it might be. You know what they say about opinions don't you? They are just like a certain part of your body - everyone has one, and sometimes they are full of....well, hope you get the idea.

Please seek some help, or try to learn something from your fellow Chinese. It might be too late for you, but I hope you can still learn something and have a decent life. The world will never be like what you hope for, so the sooner you accept that and deal with reality, the better off you will be.

And - once again you make China and the Chinese seem to be pretty low. If you think a foreigner who stays here to "sell" his face and language for 5 years is such a terrible thing, what does that say about the Chinese government, school officials, and local citizens who are willing to pay for and cater to that foreigner for such a long time?

Lastly - are you able to have an intelligent debate, or will you continue to ignore all points and evidence against you and simply respond with your oft-repeated "opinions" that don't answer any questions or provide any evidence to support the crucial issues? Please say so if that is the case because it would save all of us a lot of time.

It's alright, he's just one of many angry young Chinese males who have been screwed over by their government but have been told it's because of the evil foreigners. I doubt he'll ever learn anything else as he's happy that his miserable conditions here aren't the fault of Chinese people. Keeps him happy to think that there's nothing he can do.

It is just common sense, or should be, even to young Chinese who have had a proper Chinese education - they do study history right? For thousands of years Chinese have had to endure internal strife, invasions from outside, starvation, class and ethnic discrimination, male dominance, and large-scale poverty....and now, just a few decades (compared to centuries prior) after opening up to the west, China is prospering like never before. Someone can hate the west to the nth degree, but I don't see how anyone with even half a brain can deny that opening up to the west and accepting certain changes has been good for China.

Uberche,tell us some of your miserable past to us,I'd like to share it with you.if you don't,I assume you had an excellent life in your homeland,so why don't you go back to enjoy it?China is polluted,crowded,leave it alone,and open your west border to help us chinese to share your western happy life in west.

I don't hate the west as I've been there and seen how the people live. On the surface, it seems like the land of plenty. Most ppl spend their money stocking up on processed food from the supermarts - resulting in a nation of obese and unhealthy people.

Compare that with rural China and Vietnam. Most people are poor but happy and healthy. Food is fresh greens from the fields. There are very few obese people in the rural villages. I have visited homes in rural Vietnam where they don't even have refrigerators. Whatever for? They have fresh food everyday.

Anyway there are as many disenchanted westerners coming to China for a better life as there are Chinese heading to the west for an education or a taste of a different lifestyle.

Chinarock Wrote:
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> Uberche,tell us some of your miserable past to
> us,I'd like to share it with you.if you don't,I
> assume you had an excellent life in your
> homeland,so why don't you go back to enjoy
> it?China is polluted,crowded,leave it alone,and
> open your west border to help us chinese to share
> your western happy life in west.

I had an excellent life in Canada! Good job, money, friends and all that. But why would I want to just sit on my ass in one country and never see the rest of the world if I don't have to? I love traveling and meeting new people and while doing this I foudn another job that I really love. So through traveling my life went from Excellent in Canada to fan-fucking-tastic in traveling. HURRAY FOR ME!

@Uberche
You said you have been in China about 6 or 7 years in other post I have seen; it's a long time enough to see how China look like, and you also said China is polluted, crowded, no human rights, the education is a mess, etc in other posts. I don't see the point of stay in China just for travel and explore of such a long time.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2010 09:04PM by Olive.

Chinarock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Uberche
> You said you have been in China about 6 or 7 years
> in other post I have seen; it's a long time enough
> to see how China look like

Yeah but I still haven't made it to Japan, Vietnam, Thailand,Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia and more. China's a great place for a base camp while traveling around all the other countries. As well I've got a business started here that's doing pretty good.

> and you also said China is polluted

Definitely

> crowded

Without a doubt

> no human rights

Never said that.

> the education is a mess

Agreed.

> I don't
> see the point of stay in China just for travel and
> explore of such a long time.

Just because CHina has problems doesn't mean I don't enjoy my life here. China's polluted, so I try to visit parks and go to travel to places that aren't. China is over-crowded so if i want peace and quiet I stay in my house. The Education is a huge mess so I'm trying to help the students as much as I can outside of the education system.

If you can't see the point in staying somewhere that lets me go on long trips around Asia at least twice a year, gives me very little work so I have lots of free time to do what I enjoy, pays me enough to live comfortably, gives me a free house and is changing rapidly before my eyes so it's always interesting, I guess I don't know what youa re looking for in life.

I'm not a person who wants a 9-5 job with a wife, kid and a house. That's an incredibly boring waste of a life in my opinion. I want to go out and see things, start my own businesses, live life differently than 99% of the population. If I went home, I'd make more money and have a more stable life, but my life would be wasted, sitting in a house with lots of money and no time to do anything I like with the money.

I really get the feeling modern Chinese have lost sight of what life is about, just like the Westerners have. Money money money. Foreigners who come to China for a long time must be losers because they can make more money back home. English teachers are losers because they don't make as much money as business people. students take economics when they want to take art because, money. Everything here is about money, I reject that. Fuck money. Money is the reason people kill each other. Money is the reason people steal, lie, cheat and do horrible things. Anyone who obsesses on money will die an unhappy person as they haven't actually done anything in their life. Focus on what makes you happy, the rest will follow.

I'd be happy when the evil and stupid whites disappear too, leaving only the good and smart ones. What a better world that would be! Unfortunately, the evil and stupid of ALL races could disappear but it would only be a matter of time before the good and smart people started to be evil and stupid again. Life is cyclical, society is too. Empires rise and fall. Populations improve but then when things get too easy, newer generations are born and the population gets worse again. It has repeated for centuries and will continue to. America was a much better place one or two generations ago, but then life became too easy and the people too rich, and new generations became spoiled, lazy, greedy, and less learned.

yeah, it's why I can't agree wtih the idea of anarchy being a good system. (true anarchy, not chaos and violence) Too many people are terrible at controlling their desires...

Oh, it seems to be a big fight over here, but maybe I still dare to tell my own experience.

I came to China because it was my dream. I can't tell you why it was my dream, but it was a really strong one. I waited almost 10 years to come to China. Sure there are things in China that I don't like, but I always try to find the reason behind things. China is an experience of a life time. I can always learn something new. I am staying at least for next 4 years, but probably longer. I also have a boyfriend that keeps me here.