Although the human rights in Tibet are a real issue, should demonstrators take it out on the Olympics, a world event that is just being hosted in China?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2008 10:10PM by Olive.

Shouldn't people be allowed to peacefully demonstrate or protest for a just cause?

I, personally, have very strong feelings on this subject. Being Chinese, and living in Shanghai, I feel as if it's my duty to portray not the Chinese story, but the Chinese people's story.

We, the people, (I'm speaking from many people who I've asked this very same question and discussed this very same topic with) are very concerned with this topic because of its overall effects on our nation. The future of China and her people are in danger because of this total outburst of the global community. However, the point that I'm trying to get across is not my opinions. Nor am I boasting any side. The olympics are a display of athletic skill. It's wrong to stop this for politics. I, myself, support the freedom of all people, whether in Tibet or in Sudan. In Korea or anywhere else in the world. Yet why should it matter what I, you, or anybody has to say regarding politics within the olympics?

I am not saying that the Chinese people have no care whatsoever about Tibet. In fact, it can obviously be seen that we do care. Quite a bit, from the amount of protests.

However, personally, if I may voice my blunt opinion, the people of the world are handling this quite poorly. If only we could resolve this issue in peace, rather than violence, then the fighting over this topic would stop. The Chinese people do not want this familiar fighting to occur. For so long have we endured the fighting of human rights, of authority, of silly things. Rather than fighting to solve this issue, we must work together. Regardless of ideals, regardless of race or country, we must work together, as one global family. Only then, may this issue be resolved.

If I also may say, it annoys me quite a bit of the world's reaction. Why is it that only now people go insane over a topic like Tibet? I am sure (yet only guessing) that millions have died in Africa since the beginning of the year. Thousands in Iraq, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, etc. There are many other places which are experiencing the same situations.

The athletes of the Olympics have been caught in between a war of politics, and this is completely unfair. The protests and possible boycott of the olympics are a thing which threaten the athletes' entire life's work. This is an unspeakable outrage and is totally wrong, since these athletes have devoted their entire lives to this single event. Yes, what is happening in Tibet is wrong. I speak for many in China when I say so. However the way this is being dealt with is extremely poor. Violence, carelessness, selfishness - all things that can describe the handling of this issue.

One problem i do have with china hosting the olympics is that the olympics were formed by the first country to come up with western democracy and its privilages are being given to a communist state. It doesn't make sense to me and is kinda an insult to the western world. Especially from a country that shuns western ideals and tries to ignore them completely but im not an expert on the topic so im not completely sure.

Also, to li1121, when else will the rest of the world be able to speak out against chinas inhumain acts in tibet, such as the shooting of people trying to leave tibet, the forced sterilisation without basic anaesthetics, the torture for many years without true reasoning apart from someone voicing there beliefs and the spying and beating monks, spiritual leaders to the tibetan people. China had no right to invade tibet, and they most certainly have no right to terrify its people. People probably are protesting the olympics torch as this is the one area that the chinese government will listen as this is the one area where china are putting there dignity on the line and it is already being tarnished. Therfore the rpotesting is having an affect.

I understand where you are coming from. However, I cannot say I agree entirely with the actuality of your facts. I've lived in China my entire life, but have not experienced the majority of the things you have listed China to be guilty of. The Chinese are highly westernized, intaking a liking to industry, fast food, etc. The majority of Chinese citizens have adapted to many western traditions.

I also must refute a couple other points. One: China most certainly is not a dictatorship, giving no rights whatsoever. While it is true that China is in no way a democracy, it is wrong to say that no rights are given. I enjoy a wide range of rights in my nation. As you can tell, I can speak English very well only because of the fact that we have a great amount of rights. This is also an example of how we've adapted quite well to western culture.

Tiber: I am not stating that I support the killing of Tibetan people. In no way am I boasting towards the annexing of Tibet or taking away a person's dutiful rights. I strongly support Tibet in its struggle, and strongly support the conservation of human rights. However, why fight it on the olympic grounds? If there is to be a battle to be fought, let it be fought elsewhere. What really gets at me, just as you say that it makes you angry that a democratic nation created the olympics, is that we are essentially making this a dictatorship over the athletes. Politics are now dictating whether or not athletes can compete in what they've worked for their whole lives.

Secondly, this constant "abuse" of Chinese people is in no way completely true. In the beginning of China's communist times, Mao Ze Dong implied these actions. Yes, that I agree with. In that time, I completely agree with the fact that China was a dictatorship. However, as time went by, things became easier and smoother. If you go to China today, you won't suddenly get captured and tortured. China is a different nation than what it used to be. I feel strongly that the West needs to see China for what it really is. Its government is not everything. In fact, it's not even half of everything.

Thirdly, no, the Chinese government does not abuse monks. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc. are not forbidden, yet the government simply discourages them. There are millions of Buddhists in China and millions are public ones. In no way are any of these people taken away and tortured.

I understand what you're saying when you say that China is abusing Tibet. However, the actions taking place in Tibet currently are not of China's free will. They did not just go in there one day looking for trouble. The original and truthful story is that there were pro-democratic protests which were occuring in Tibet. No, China did not simply go in and start killing people because they were protesting. The protestors became violent and began rioting. China's government did not intervene even then. This is because Tibet had been a complicated subject from the beginning. Only later did they go in and quell the riots. So, in truth, it was simply a protest that got out of hand.

What I'm trying to say here is not that the West is wrong and China is right. I'm not saying China's wrong and the West is right. Personally, we are all wrong. I, myself, am a Buddhist. In Buddhism, you have to learn to solve things not through violence, yet through peace and tranquil means. The world is currently in total disarray, growing ever so more violent. We, as a gigantic global family, must work together and solve our differences not through weapons and harsh words, but through understanding one another. I understand your position and am not wishing to get into a fight with you over this topic. In time, and with much patience, all things tend to fall where they should. In time, China will become much better. In time, we may finally all understand one another and solve our differences. However, if you rush things, such as the world is doing with the Olympics, then I have a profound fear that nothing but bad may come from it.

Thank you Li1121 for reminding us of the romantic view and idealized spirit of the Olympic games. It's a good question to ask, and goes beyond China: Do the Olympics and politics mix? Rather than arguing for or against, I would take a step back and look at the fact that since the Olympic games were reinstituted in modern times, there have been many instances of political demonstrations and protests, boycotts and even killings.

Maybe this is a loud afternoon wakeup call for China. Because of technology and expanding populations, the world is getting smaller. Modern times mean times have changed. To not allow people to peacefully express themselves means that they must bottle it up inside, and that can turn easily into a Molotov cocktail.

I must say that Gavin pulled a quick and slick one yesterday.

Yes. This is the point I am trying to make. We must look past the small details, which everybody seems to be getting stuck on. We must look at the real problem.

The problem with human rights in China is an issue, and an important one at that. I'm speaking now, not as a random commenter on this site, yet as one of 1.3 billion Chinese who have withstood many hardships. Although it is an important issue, the Olympics, something that harbors many ideals of peace, and politics, something ravaged with violence and the reputation as a war mongerer, simply should be kept far apart.

In the world, it's inevitable for violence to occur. In life, there must be a constant balance. There will be good, and there will be bad. However, if we only ever use bad, then we will only ever end up with bad. However, when we use good - that, then, will create something we never thought could happen; peace.

Li, once again i did not say that the chinese people have no rights. It is the tibetans who have very little rights. I did not say that monks were taken away, i said tibetan monks were taken away due to there position and due to the fact they are respected by the people of tibet. Forced sterilisation has happened for years and my facts come from what i must say hauntinng stories provided by an undercover documentary showing these things. I doubt that many undercover documemtaries that have come out in the UK are all fake and everything made up. I believe i know that the people are scared, i saw from the tape police in civilian clothing watching the monasteries, i heard stories from victims of abuse by chinese officials. It may not be the chinese governments will but it is your governments will. Like the war in Iraq is not the British peoples will but is our government and now were hated for it.

I do understand the fact that china is becoming a safer place to live, with more powers and privialges being given to the people. I am at this moment finding an interest in chinese culture and daily lives and have been watching another documentary on chinese schools and i have been thinking about learning Manderin and becoming an English teacher in china. But there are still many issues, especially in tibet that need to be fixed.

I, once again, must add my perspective. I've been to Tibet many times. I've stayed there for weeks. In my time there, and my throughout my whole life in China, I've never once seen this over-dramatized viewpoint the world has taken upon China. We are not slowly working towards human rights. We already enjoy a good amount that British, American, Canadian, etc. people enjoy.

Yes, I will admit flat out that the government does oppose many Tibetan rights. It refutes the existence of a place called Tibet as well as the existence of Taiwan. However, these positions the government takes are under precaution of Tibetan and Taiwanese military opposition. With 2 regions which claim themselves independent, the Chinese government has worries of a situation much like that of the 13 colonies in America and Britain.

The problem is not that China hates Tibetans and wishes to just simply abuse them and their rights. It's simply human nature. We are all, sadly, filled with a great amount of greed, selfishness, and hate. This is the real issue. Past the politics, the anger, the views of everybody, there inlies the true and actual issue of this whole topic. Instead of arguing about this topic on this site, we should be acting. Not towards any cause other than the peaceful resolve of this issue. Yes, we will never agree upon this topic. I can see that. You have true facts and I have experience and facts from those experiences. We could debate forever without anything ever being resolved. However, by working together, all of us, as a true global community, we can put aside our differences and work towards peace.

This is a very complicated situation with many facts and opinions to share. However, in time, things will be resolved. In China, human rights were resolved with time. What we can do is not fight over what to do, yet work together to reach the common goal we all wish to reach; peace. I must state, once again, as I have stated so many times before: we are a global family. With peace and kindness, anything can be accomplished. However, if we use violence, hate, and selfishness, these all being central human qualities, nothing but more hate, violence, and selfishness will come from it. We must, all of us, work together for a better earth. This is an inevitable thing, that humans will have differences. It is quite hard to find a time when humans did not have differences. However, the real problem is not having those differences, yet how to solve them. Once again, violence only causes violence. Peace will bring about peace. In time, I hope you will find this truth. By arguing this topic time and again, we are only bringing about the worst of humans. We are no better than those in the world today who are hurting and killing over this very same topic. Thus, this will be my final post here. I hope you receive my word of peace and kindness, and hope you soon find what you need to understand my position.

我希望你可以找到和平。
~李常旺

China will not do what the five million tibetans want as there are huge coal fields in tibet. You talk of peace finding peace and violence finding violence but china has not used peace, it has used violence in tibet and as you say there violence has bred more violence. The tibetans have reacted to the violence and started to respond peacefully but this has not worked as china still uses violence and naturally bred violence back.

In the american revolution, they fought against the heavy british taxes and the press ganging of there sailors. Which was the same treatment being given to the british people. But the americans were British. Tibetans are tibetans not chinese. The chinese are supressing the tibetans. And from what i've seen given by my media which has no reason to lie, it shows disgusting acts and accounts given by victims.

And i would like to explain the shut down of news from tibet. Why would china stop the release of news. And how come the trains going to tibet were full of armoured vechiles such as tanks and soldiers.

Sports is sports. And politics is politics. They shouldnot be mixed together!
With regard to the truth in Tibet!
Whoever wanna the truth, they are expected to go there, walk around, and their eyes will tell them the truth.
Mass medias are all liars. Can you still remember what CNN, VOA BBC etc provokes years agobefore the breaking-out of Irag War? And what is the truth? so I think with the passage of time, everything will be clear.

they afraid power china and they try to bite all chinese things for humiliate China

Believe me, all of you are not flattering yourselves in trying to prove who is right and who is wrong.

Show some heart.

support olympics, OYE!!!!

Arrival of Olympic torch amid protestors in Beijing.

I just want to say get out of this world! All of the dirty,shity,fucking tibet protestor.
Tibet was,is and always will be a part of China.
I posted a commontary in this website.
I don't know who delete my commontary. I hate it.
Dirty words for those dirty western countries people!!!

Tiber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One problem i do have with china hosting the
> olympics is that the olympics were formed by the
> first country to come up with western democracy
> and its privilages are being given to a communist
> state. It doesn't make sense to me and is kinda an
> insult to the western world. Especially from a
> country that shuns western ideals and tries to
> ignore them completely but im not an expert on the
> topic so im not completely sure.

--in the year 2012, you could save you insult, because you can strongly suggest your govenment to exclude Asian, African and Latin Americans. And we will definitely support you!

You cyber-Nationalists are really crazy. Now you label the one-leg, Shanghai girl Jin Jing as a traitor for not supporting the Carrefour boycott. One day you love her, the next day you hate her. Use people like toilet paper. She obviously loves her country. Haven’t you gone too far?

I've been around and I have to tell you, I think you people are being played...seriously played.

No, but the olympics could be dipicted as a symbol of democracy as it was created by the first democratic country in the world. The Greeks. And if you haven't noticed although mostly corrupted, most african, and south american countries are democratic. It may be considered an insult, not difinately an insult. It could be said that japan comes and plays in the common wealth games. Though they shouldn't as they are not part of the common wealth.

Hear, hear. Where there media lies toits people giving biased views for there Governemnt. A country that had its education system stopped for three years as the chinese communist party were scared of educated people. Because educated people would rise up against the tyranny. Where, evn in this day and age, the children who do go to school join the communist youth party, like the german facists children joined hitler youth. Where there media not only lies but says that everyone else who is against there views lies.

tiber, i wish not fight more. but i have say u show hypocrisy

u say one time u cannot account for action commit by people century ago. but now you say this: "Tbet until 1951 was it sown country. It like england keeping all its empire. You invaded tibet so therefore it is a colony of china, not china. There culture and believes are so different to the chinese and they aren't treated the same as the chinese."

how can modern china account for action commit by china near 50 year ago? so u do not have account for english century ago who span the whole globe, being selfish and greedy, kill all in they way? you do not have account for english century ago who murder innocent scots and kill all oppose catholic? but we chinese have account for action commit by people almost 50 year ago? i must say, this not fair at all.

i am not try to anger you. in fact, it horribly immature how whole world react to this entire thing. but, i cannot stand by and let this hypocrisy u speak slip away.

also, u wrong with china youth. there much anger in them. is like rest of world. everybody. we all need independent. youth not brainwashed. only kid who believe in communist. not many. most china youth want be free. just like everybody.

i can cite many many many band, all youth, who constant fight for freedom. but, we all must see truth. life always going to have bad. life always going to have complication. but if can just put these aside. forget the past. work together and be kind. but most important, tolerate what happen, and not further violent action, we be a better world. right now, we furthering violence.

if only whole world can see past china government. to what matter most. the people. if not notice, people in government are diffrent people then people live in china. we all cannot think same. if u think so...u sadly mistake.

yet this situation, the athlete also most important. the olympic may be create by first democracy, but as u say...what happen in past not matter. i have say, u words very confusing. first it matter what happen in past: tibet, democracy, all this pertain to china. but when english come into picture, u say u cannot account for them. it seem only when u have chance to hurt china, then it matter.

To Tiber:
Could u kindly tell me there ur information came from? from ur media? no, forget it, consider how many years have u been brainwashing by ur media? take a flashback in ur memory, have u ever heard anything good abt China? who are the guys being brainwashed? Chinese or u? I havent seen any evidence that indicates Chinese police or Han ppl hurting Tibetan, dont even mention the pics u saw on bbc,cnn or etc, they r either fake or made completely different story to the truth. u know what? ur FAIRNESS media used Nepal police's pic to frame a case against to Chinese! please remember, when u criticise someone else only the evidence makes metter, if there were really lots of violent out there, why there werent no even one pics leak out to the public? Think before u judge anything!!

To tiber again:
you know what? if u r talking abt human right, do u really know what was the human right look like 60 yrs ago in tibet?? over 95% of population of tibetan were slaves, they had no land, no allowed to be educated, no even been treated as a HUMAN, they skins were been scaled off from their body and gave to DALAI as birthday gift, if u want i can give u evidence, and that's so ridiculous that western countries talking abt human right to others, do u know what u did to chinese 100yrs ago? u were selling opium to Cinese, and u war to Chinese after we rejected it, is this the human right u r talking abt? dont make me laugh!!!!

One there is a difference. England no longer has an empire and we have paid for what we did. Due to our empire, everyone belonging to the common wealth was free to come to Britain. We have made mistakes and have amitted to them. I'm not sure where you got the killing all the way bit because it was not killing that got us our empire. Three of the largest parts of our empire were colonies. Canada, Australia and United States. We gained our empire through trade and fake promises. The East Indian Trading company was the one that invaded India. But there invasion was slow a subtle. The battles fought in India were few. Africa was a sad misfortune as that is what funded our empire and the first industrial revolution. The black slaves but we were the first to stop black slavery. And from the slavery came the song 'Amasing Grace'. I am not being hypocritical as we've sorted our problems, you haven't as china still owns tibet.

Also if they were not classed as human fifty years ago, they'd prefer that then your regime of a government. If they wanted to be under chinese rule surely they wouldn't be rioting. See your media is government run and so is your internet. I am the one questioning your media as it does not speak truthfully and puts large twists on stories that help the government. I bet the chinese media haven't pointed out a problem with china.

My media is brain washing me. My media pulls out scandals on my government. My information does not come from the media, it comes from a documentary made in the news black out. Also we KNOW THEY WERE NEPALS POLICE, but it seems on orders from your embassey. Our media told us at the start they were Nepal police. I know what chinese police look like. Honestly i'm not stupid.

One more thing, you use the british empire for eveything, something that happened 100 years ago and know we don't have. We no longer have an empire and cater in our country for many migrant workers from our empire who are in their thrid generation. You cannot compare the British empire and tibet as the British empire is gone and we admitt our mistakes. The chinese colonies are still under chinese rule and you haven't admitted your mistakes.

We do hear good things coming from china. We like the fact that your doing economically well, we like the fact that we are doing business with you. Yet we hear bad things come from china, like the disbelieve in global warming and human right issues.

We are shown by our media both good and bad things about our country. We are shown pictures of our soldiers three years ago bullying and being cruel to Iraqi people. That has stopped however but we are still having men held hostage and the decapitated. For what, for being in the country. Soldiers have no choice but governments do. It is not the soldiers fault, he is ordered. But they don't just get soldiers, they get aid workers and decapitate there heads.

Do u know what tibetan are being treated in china today? they dont have to obey one-child policy as any other chinese does, they can enter top universties in china with much lower requirments, they have higher pripority to do almost anything than normal chinese ppl, is this how chinese goverment outraging tibetan in ur eyes? and one thing, tibet became part of china since 1208AC, stop saying it is a colony of china becoz it's not, it's part of china just as hongkong and taiwan.

i am not denying there are still lots of points need to be improved in chinese goverment, and that's why china is called "developing country", and dont naively use ur western point of view to judge chinese, watever happens in china ,that's our own business, use a words from a chinese ambassador, one inch of chinese soil is more valuable than ppl's life, never try to split china, u will never get success.

im questioning ur logic, why u r boycotting olympic? becoz wat happened in tibet one month ago? no, it's not true, becoz no freedom of speech in china?
is this worth? becoz human right? no, u chose the wrong way to do it, not only chinese goverment, all chinese ppl will not compromise to any thread from outside, even those who are not satisfied to the goverment! if u want to talk, u r more than welcome, but if u do this for other purpose, u will never make it.

Just as I told you many many times Tiber, on and off the forum to you.

You need to go to Tibet to witness every single thing by your own eyes, and you will surely know which side of us is on a wrong track.Until that, everything you are accusing us is not trustworthy.


And can you really argue with me over this issue: to forget about your according-to book and come to China to witness everything.

You wouldn't dare because you afraid by the time what you believe will be wrong.


Welcome to China to have a LOOK!


And we have nothing to hide. Chinese dare to say that, and you do not seems dare to say come over and have a look.

So, please don't post anymore about free tibet, cos you like to prefer book-said-so rather than the real truth-----THE REALITY.
You said you care about human rights of Tibetans that badly and we don't see you have the courage or at least motivation to come over Tibet to have a look, everything you have is only by-the-book and told-by-media, if everyone believe knowledge by-the-book without their own thinkings, then I am afraid now the sun is still goes around the earth. And you are one of the 'faithful believers'.

Once again, come over to China, we have nothing to hide. And you are not even wothy to accuse us before you truely experience it, PERIOD!


Hope you choose your way wisely......for the sake of your own......

DOS
SINCERELY

oye, and have sense of common knowlege. Tibet is part of China,which is recognized by all of countries for HUNDREDS of years. The so-called 'independent' was not even recognized by a country. So whatever china develop Tibet's economic and resources is LEGAL and LAWFUL. And Tibetan's laguage and Han chinese's laguage are under same laguage family called Sino-Tibetan languages, our culture are diffierent but we share same hitorial background. Legally, everyone has Chinese nationality are considered as 'chinese', like an African Americanis an American.
Culturally, the culture exchange between ancient Tibet and China were very often, and since Yuan dynasty Tibet was made officially a Chinese territory till now.

So, have a common sense, Tibetan is Chinese, LEGALLY and CULTRALLY.Do mix that!

And your so-called material did not even teach you that?

And now back to the topic: would you like to come over China, to find out the truth...
Or you insist your by-the-beloved-material knowledge and argue with us with no hope to persuade anyone.
We always welcome interantional guests to visit us 24/7.



Please come over to our country....

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2008 03:13PM by Doszhu.