Im sixteen by the way so i doubt i'll be getting very far at the moment. I have not read it in a book, but seen on films, on medias from china, aljazeera, canada, Engalnd, and USA. I get my information from documentaries and undercover operations like that done by channel four in North Korea.

I invite you to England also. Visit London, watch our news, read our newspapers, wander the streets, go to famous places, watch a football match or a rugby match.

If i am not allowed to criticise your country for your lack of human intergrity and love, then you can not criticise my country, saying were liars, were evil, were intolerent and very bad people.

Keep one thing in mind, our media isn't run by our Government. Please remember that.

Tiber, you are being so stubborn.
We tell you, time and again, come China. Please, if you are so sure China so bad, come here and see. Go to Tibet, you will see nothing but buddhist monks praying peacefully. Do not criticize our nation of such thing only report by "undercover and documentary". We chinese have a name for this, it's called 屁话!

Chinese people do not accuse britain based on "undercover and documentary" thing. The reason you see China police and government in Tibet is because they do real report. Not media and documentary. They are actually there, seing with own two eyes. Wake up Tiber. Why documentary and report made? So that people read them, so they are popular, all about money, you simply just dragged in it. So stop hiding behind your report and documentary by people who simply want u to read and make money.

Also if Chinese media controls the internet, then how come all these Chinese people are able to come here? A place where people openly criticize China government? Think before you speak.

Doszhu, thank you for being reasonable and rational.
Tiber, please stop being stubborn and only listen to urself and media and documentary. Listen to those who actually there. I, by the way, not try to start fight. This silly, but you need to realize all we and i say.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2008 08:59PM by Olive.

Very nice of you, and tell you what, I am staying in UK for over 8 years, I do read, watch and experience your country's culture and all other stuff. And that is why I know your media is so biased not since Tibet affair but since ALWAYS. Do you remember I told you about the rail way report by The Times?
Before the railway built, The Time complained Chinese government for leaving the economic of Tibet behind, and after that it accuse Chinese Government intended to increase control over Tibet. FUNNY isn't it?

You don't believe me? That is fine, you can go to The Times to find out archieve by yourself.

And you said you are full of love right? If you really are full of love, you wouldn't accuse others country so easily and irrsponsbliy.

And I never said your country are evil, I will say your medias misled people for ages and you are one of them who deeply poisoned, on case towards to china.

And remember this, your media did not run by governement, but it was INFLUENCED by your parties, conservative and labour. All your medias have their political orientations according to theirs chief editors stance. These medias will support parcific party in a fixed time.
go and ask ur parents about UK's medias political orientation...and don't expect they will tell you these medias are non-political
and do not fool on us...

And just because you are 16, you should learn more before you having a such aggressvie thread here, not only from books, materials. But also from pratice, like go to place to apply what you learnt to reality to see if they are true or not. Like go to China to see human right issue.

This is also why your country wouldn't let you vote in age of 16.

By the way, you are very prejudice and radical in some rate. Do not act like that, in China we call it 愤青 which means angry youth...

If i am not allowed to criticise your country for your lack of human intergrity and love, then you can not criticise my country, saying were liars, were evil, were intolerent and very bad people. don't forget it was you who started the thread not us to say 'free tibet'.

and personally, I only resent your media on case of China and Tibet. And I have many English, Spanish and Franch friends. And you can be a friend of Chinese to, as long as you put down your offensive attitude.
As long as you talk like that, you are not arguing with a reason but judging people without thinking...

Well, you should make a plan to come over China in years, it is even cheaper than go to ski to swiss. And ask your parents to go too, you will enjoy our culture and heritage.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2008 08:46PM by Olive.

So do we, but if you haven't noticed im sixteen. And don't have the money. But you come over here, i'll give you the tour of britain. And you will not persuade me with your government run media.

Quote:
Yongping: Doszhu, thank you for being reasonable and rational.
Tiber, please stop being stubborn.

Let's just support Olympic Games this year, 2008 is a tought year of China, but we can make it throught!!!

Quote:
Tiber: So do we, but if you haven't noticed im sixteen. And don't have the money. But you come over here, i'll give you the tour of britain. And you will not persuade me with your government run media.

Just answer me this: did you actually ask your parents about if your medias are nuetral on political stance or not! And what is your answer?
And by the way, i knew you are 16 since from time i repply your thread. And I thought you should knew my whereabout, just have a look at user profile.....

Three videos
[www.youtube.com], [www.youtube.com], [www.youtube.com]
This is quite fun, this guys (whoever English or American) has his own theory: UK is the final "big-boss" who pulled off 'free Tibet' and anti-Olympic trick, in aim of provoking World War III! I do not give this kind of conpiracy kind-of theory a damn and I cerntainly don't believe it, but watch it makes people to think more that is for sure.
Tiber, look at these videos, I am not saying to believe it. I don't even believe it. But what these videos you should come to sense that how political can be complicated and dirty.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2008 08:53PM by Olive.

Tiber, if you only sixteen. Then let me tell you: you do not have any right to say anything bad about China!
Do you understand? I don't care you delete my commontary.*
Do not say anything without see！ If you want to say that then wait till you could come to China and then say the things you think!

* Word from the webmaster
It's not Tiber, but me who delete your messages when they are agressive.
Some explanations here: Topic remove by this forum without warning. Olive

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2008 12:12AM by Olive.

Wait the reason for the 'under cover' reporting is because china will not let our news teams in. Yes i realise that our news papers have political orientaions like your own, but as there is one party there is only one political orientation.

I also realise that everyone has a political swing. Doszhu part of my probelm is that communism in many states has not worked. Russia told it's people to love the homeland, and they did but while they loved there homeland, more of their own people were killed then by hitler.

Communism in North Korea hasn't exactly worked either and they are considered the poorest nation in the world.

But all that a side the question still stands. Why are your government creating a shielod that stops our journalists coming in and why are the tibetan protesting if not because they feel oppressed. Because there attacks on property isn't random. There attacks are on chinese shops. Also from what i know it started because monks were being told to stop there pledge of loyalty to the Dalai Lama. But that is what i know. Of course your media is so much better and less bias then our own on global matters and would not put the news into their own favour what so ever.

Another off topic question why were chinese weapons going into Zimbabwe. Just want the chinese view because there media never lies, not bias and is the light of knowledge.

And being sixteen doesn't mean that i do not have an opinion Irenechen. I am able to pay taxes at sixteen so i do not know what you are talking about. Unless you are ageist and see a problem with young people speaking there minds. Like the victorians, 'children must be seen not heard.'

And, you say you lived in England for eight years Doszhu. What part and also what news channel did you watch. What differences did you notice. Doszhu i noticed my sources that i use and have shown on china news but the title is wrong. Look at Aljazeera news in china news, i labeled it wrong. It's just to prove that i have looked at both points of view.

Why do the chinese people say that Iraq and Afganistan are genocides. When it is not our soldiers killing their people, but suicide bombers killing people in voting ques and so on. We heard of our soldiers doing wrong two years ago and they were punished for it. Butg since then we have heard nothing of our soldiers purposly doing wrong.

Ok， you could pay taxes by yourself. I don't care.
The most important thing I care about is that you do not know about China so well. China is the most successful country to have communism. You,I do welcome you come to China. You will know why I said that. I don't care about the Russia or North Korea. That 's not the problem that I concern. I know my country is very good. Once you have enough money to travel, please come to China first. I am not gonna treat you. Dalai just want to be a king in Tibet. Did you know how many people he killed in Tibet? You are not Chinese! You don't know. We are very very sad about that our countrymen were killed by creazy Dalai. There were a lot of innocent blood were killed by him. Did you know about that? And that happened in the last month. Do you need me to copy a website address for you?
I just think you don't see the truth enough is happening in China. If you were a Chinese people, you would understand what I am saying here.
There is one word I want to say again. Once you have enough money, Please come to China. I would like to see you see the friendly, developed country and great-hearted Chinese people.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2008 10:38PM by Irenechen.

When has the Dalai Lama ever said that he wants violent protests look on chinese news then have a look at the fairest view on tibet so far. It i about an indian writer and is very beneficial. It shows that both out media are wrong as the western medias look at tibet in one way and well then there's the chinese propoganda about the Dalai causing all this that has no truth in it what so ever. But im sure that is a very weak claim that most chinese see through. Also, it does tell us more about why there is anger in tibet.

I found this which gives i think an even view on the matter.
This report made by an indian shows faults in both our medias, and i believe to probably be the most true:

Quote:
Western media miss the real Tibet story (By Michael Backman)
http://business.theage.com.au/western-media-miss-the-real-tibet-story/20080408-24nz.html
Beyond China, there are many vested interests wanting a stake in the future of Tibetan rule.
AFTER several years of highlighting wrongdoers in Asia in these pages and providing viewpoints that run counter to prevailing wisdom, I’ve at last received my first death threat. Probably not that serious (it came anonymously by email) but something of a career milestone, nonetheless. It came from someone who claims to be a Tibetan refugee in India and a follower of the Dalai Lama. Read all »

Do you agree Doszhu and Irenechen. Plus many of the last times i have asked a view questions, one of which is off topis. Why do chinese people see Iraq and Afganistan as a genocide by American and British forces. As our nation has only seen our troops mistreat the local people two or even three years ago now and those soldiers were punished but we have not had any other news since, especially not of a genocide.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2008 11:51PM by Olive.

I don't agree. I don't believe any foreigner to say those things about China.
I know my country 's history very well. I don't agree what this india man said about China. It is not true.
You still can not convince me. I know Tibet 's history from the ancient time to now. I don't care what he said. I don't believe.
If you want to believe what he was saying. That's your problem. But once you have chance to come to China. Just come to look at it by yourself. I would like to be your tour in China. I have a lot of foreign friends. I am very confidence my country.
Anyway, I just want to tell you. I do not agree what that india man talked about China and I don't know if he really know China history. It sounds like no evidence.
I don't believe! And also, I don't care if your country's soldiers punished or not. Your country and American raped Iraq and Afganistan. That's true. And that's known by all of the people in the world. And that 's totally wrong. Just go convinced your country be nice to this world first then you could talk about China. And don't believe the things without you see. Iraq war was known by everybody. That is could not find the way to hide.

I feel that politics should not interfere with sports. The protests that are happening in Tibet are a reflection of China's poor Human Rights record but this should not interfere with the coming Olymipics. The Olympics is a issue of National pride and Joy not Human Rights. Speaking as a Chinese living in Malaysia, I feel that no country should boycott or even think of boycotting the Olympics and it should be left alone. We can deal with Tibet after the Olympics. The protesters see this an opportunity but come on, the gathering of all nations competing for 1st place in various sports has nothing to do with Human Rights and therefore, I think that all countries or any prominent World Leader think boycotting the Olympics over.

Go CHINA !

I think we need stop to talk about politic. We nothing change only swearing and stupid dispute. Better be friends

Look this is not "western" view of tibet. It comes from an indian man. Tibetans get into universitites easier then chinese as they are using a second language. If you were competing to get into a german college would you like being judged on your German. Also the population of tibet is different to that of the chinese. It is not as big as that of the chinese. There population has fallen from 6'000'000 to 5'000'000 world wide. Also it is against human rights to have that policy, but forcing it on a colony is a crime. I do say colony as it has its own culture and religion. It also feels as if the migrants are taking there jobs with chinese shops, which are more modern. The tibetans don't have the money to compete by foreign competition and are becoming poor because of it. Although the economy has risen, it is not the tibetans benefitting.

Our United Kingdom is actually made of seperate countries. Scotland is run by its own laws but they benefit from our influences and our trade. And vice versa. Wales has also got it's own government but is too small to seperate and the northern ireland issue is a mess between religions so there is no need to interferr at this moment when there is peace.

I know i cannot formulate a complete picture but i believe although my news is bias it is not allowed to create stories. It is not allowed. Like china should not be sending weapons to Mugabe. What a recklass thing when the people may be able to vote and help run their own country.

Also the tibetans would differ on that view of it being apart of china. To be honest i think that is just an excuse and a piece of propoganda. If china has been apart of tibet for so long, how comes you had to send troops and tanks to it in 1951. How comes we know it as an invasion. Wait no let me guess we are the evil westerners who make up nasty lies about a country known to have a problem with there human rights.

I know your country is improving with your economic wealth but i still see you as a one party state. A communist run party state, where its people are controlled by media, blocks on the internet to youtube sometimes and has to have a google explorer made for it. A country where the people do not control the government but the government controls them. And do not say come over here because i can't. I need to got to college and to university before i even think of travelling. Also i invite you to Europe. I invite you to see our news, watch not just BBC. Which i see to just be soppy and a bit bias but does not lie. Channel four a respectable channel. You complain about our media but you no nothing else but a controlled media and a controlling government. You can come here and say our country is crap and you would still recieve benefits. If i said the communist party was crap, i think i'd be in prison or it may be seen a treason and a nice death to follow.

You must see where i'm coming from.

O sorry i was looking at the first page not the second.

Also Yarik, politics is in everything. Everything that governs our lives is due to politics. You near enough can't not talk about politics. And Irenechen i'm sorry you cannot see from another person view, as although i say these things i have found that my media is bias, i agree on that but i opened my mind and see from both sides of the arguement. Our media is bias, but your country has a government run media that will show what they want you to see.

I also disagree with chinese people having no vote for a leader. And no true freedom of speech. I wouldn't be able to live in such a society, although i do wish to teach English in china, it looks like an amasing place and it common people are hardy who get on with work no matter what. But only while im in my twenties after i'd come back to England or America to teach chemistry.

[www.youtube.com]
visit China with an open mind

You're not getting what i am saying and you have no open mindness to even listen to my point of view.

This points of topic i was just wondering:
But one thing i'd like to say is about the tolerance thing. How many scottish, welsh, irish, and English people live where you are. Because i live in a small town of 20'000 people. Yet we must have 100 chinese, 200 indian of some description, and a few black people. Let alone london which has a whole section that makes up a town of chinese. Could you please tell me why people flock to our country and not to china? There must be a reason, because even if i go to china i wouldn't like to stay. I agree it is an amasing country but there are many bad points to go with it.

Lets not go into discriminating the chinese or any other race. Besides the Olympics have nothing to do with race or nationality

well they seem to class us all as westerners. Then our medias wrong, we are causing a genocide in Iraq, this is the government sending arms to mugabe. I'm sorry but lately i've been having a complete blast in anger at wrongful politics. In our own country also. The government is not recognising the inflation and therefore not increasing the wages of civil servants. Then i came on here and i get told all this crap that our media makes up lies, that we are the ones who do not know freedom. It turns out i'm brainwashed by my media. Apart from me hating the way i get my media, in the presentation of it and the fact that i am against our government in many matters and the media but you know, i'm a westerner. I don't know anything about the world what so ever and am unable to share what i believe to be a just comments.

I then to put the icing on the cake get told that my country is intolerant by a country thats government fears people speaking freely. And the last point that you commented on just happens to be rather true if it is mean and spiteful. All i see in chinese politics is control, control over people, control over eduction, control over media, control over thought.

I watched a documentary on the chinese eduction system. It is facinating but they have to do army training, they have to join the chinese communist youth party. Which to me sounds like Hitlers Youth. I know not exactly but the points why hitlers youth was set up seems to be the main objective of the chinese. To control the young, the ones who's minds are not corrupted.

Thanks for letting me get things off my chest, i do realise i shall be getting a few comments against me on a chinese forum but to be honest i am willing to listen, take on there points and fight those that seem riduculous.

I get nothing to say to you. Tiber. I just think you are too young to say China. You said all of those things as a westerner then I think your mind about China are ridiculous.
I know how good and bad western country is. I don't need you to tell me.
I know why all of western countries want to break olympic 2008 in Beijing, because China is developing very fast and appreciation of the RMB while the USD is going down. And most of western countries are controlled by US, especially your country---UK. So most of western countries are breaking Beijing olympics and protect Tibet. Because they want to see China going down. You, as a young man in your country, I am for sure you stand the side of your country. Right? Because what you do here just like those ridiculous westerners who are breaking Beijing olympics.
Don't think about that you seem like good and fair man. I know those people who are caring about Free Tibet very well. They just want to break down China. I think you too. Now I know how bad of westerners to China.

To be honest Irenechen, i must be blunt and say that you are speaking out of your own arsehole. One thing is in Britain we hate the Americans but we are in there debt so we went to war with them in Iraq and Afganistan. They paid us money after the second world war. Our country after five and a half years had been bombed, our cargo ships destroyed, our people fighting still. You know of your suffering under the japanese but our suffering by bombings on cities and factories. We ran out of money and needed money the americans gave it to us.

We as a people are have many chinese communities, we are not against China hosting the Olympics but we don't like bad press around it of human rights. China is already breaking a rule by only having one child per couple.

Did you also know that your country was trying to give arms to Mugabe. If that weaponry got through there would have been a bloody civil war. What is your country doing? There is no advantage to the Chinese. That was one of Englands old colonies and we shall deal with that very serious issue, that your government was about to abuse.

Your government is running your media, there hardly going to say bad things about themselves now. We don't care if China is growing, we want the Chinese people to have better lives.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2008 10:10PM by Olive.

Could someone Chinese here please explain the Chinese version of the Chinese invasion of Tibet? What, in your view, led to this?

Hi Tiber,
Whatever you said, I just still stand by my country side. You are not a fair person but I think you just be a 16 young kid to say this. So you are not gonna convince me.
You will know China better one day and not just argue with me here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2008 10:21PM by Olive.

I think taht Tibet has nothing t do with the Olympics and that that jib-jabbering between Irene and Tiber has just got to stop because you know what Tibet is a seperate issue. Human Rights Activists are just taking this opportunity to take it out on the Olympics. China and Tibet are both 1 country and should work together for the better and for the Olympics.

CHINA ROCKS

Look, i know i'm from england. But the reason china thinks it can invade tibet is because of a dynasty that ruled china and tibet. Though that dynasty was mongolian. It is not a Han chinese dynasty. To be honest England should still own northern france after William the conquerer invaded. We don't have it though. We dont go and invade it.

The reason for the protests is because the olympics if protested about will affect the chinese government. It will be noticed by the chinese. When else would the chinese notice it. They most certainly wouldn't have put the protests on TV. But people want to see the torch so they had to show the protesting.

What i would wish from you on this forum is a bit of co-operation. I know my media is bias and will show the tibetan side. I also know that your government will show the chinese side and propoganda. I have looked at news from Aljazeera, an arabic news broadcaster and from indian journalists. I have watched dispatches, i have watched a programme called chinese school. The communist party is in your education system. You have the communist youth party, promoting your government. Though the programme only shows the intense education system.

I'm sorry if people disagree with me. Especially on a chinese forum. But what is the point of trying to get your point across to people who have the same views. I take on your points. Please take on mine.

Tiber Stated:
One there is a difference. England no longer has an empire and we have paid for what we did...... I'm not sure where you got the killing all the way bit because it was not killing that got us our empire.The East Indian Trading company was the one that invaded India. But there invasion was slow a subtle...... Africa was a sad misfortune as that is what funded our empire and the first industrial revolution. The black slaves but we were the first to stop black slavery. And from the slavery came the song 'Amasing Grace'. I am not being hypocritical as we've sorted our problems, you haven't as china still owns tibet.

Are you really saying that because we got the song "amazing grace" from slavery that it was good to have slavery? That is very ridiculous. And obviously the English are just as "brainwashed" as the Chinese if you think that killing wasn't a big part of your imperalism. When was Hong Kong given back? What are you doing with America in Iraq right now?!! Please, I'm so tired of Americans and Europeans getting on their high horse about what China is doing. Yes, what China is doing is wrong, but necessary for maintaining their current level of control. They staged protests in Tibet as an excuse to extinguish protests and upheavals. Like fire-fighters start small controlled burns in the forest to prevent huge fire-storms.
This is not a pretty fact, but it was necessary. And it's not right, but America and yes, even England are perpetrators of just as haenous acts. So get off your high-horse, enjoy the olympics, (that would never be protested in America, no matter how terrible we are) and relax a little

How can we take on views that are self-contradictory, personally and provincially biased, and that are based mostly on untrue premises.
You stated the argument that the colonization and enslavement of Africans is justified by the creation of the song "amazing grace". And that Enland shouldn't be held responsible for that because it was "one of" the first countries to end slavery. Every country does whatever they can in the name of progress and economic growth. Then once that is achieved they condemn other countries for taking those same steps. If England could go back in time they wouldn't have done anything differently. Oh, maybe they would have accomplished their imperalist goals faster, since they could learn from their errors before.
Don't condemn China when you are blind to your own county's problems

Ok, your sixteen. That makes sense. All high school is for is indoctinating citezens to be good consumers and obediant country-men. Why don't you wait until you are a little older to be so opinionated.

Have you heard the song amasing grace. It is about redemption and the forgiveness of a slave traders sins. He became a monk later on and lived with his guilt for the rest of his life.

Imperialist Britain was still a democracy, even if it was a democracy for the land owners. I did not say slavery was a god sent. I said it was a mistake, it was bad, but to get some dignity back from taht situation we were the first to rid ourselves of devils work. To this day we still say how sorry we are publically to the black communities in America, Britain and Africa.

What is funny is, in Iraq and Afganistan, we were against the wars. I personally want to pull out and let all those barbaric fanatics kill themselves in the name of Allah. That way none of my people need to die in foreign lands. Being shoot at by cowards who hide in crowds and bomb civilians. Now i know that we are in Iraq for the american oil companies and we are in afganistan for the oil pipe lines to run through. It is a disgrace. We have people sitting outside parliament protesting.

I don't see people outside the chinese government protesting. O you can't otherwise you'll get executed for treason. Don't tell me i'm brainwashed at school. I am taught english, maths, science, Religious studies, Graphics... and so on. But no where in that do i have to join a communist youth party. No where do i pledge allegance to some crappy queen who sits on her thrown while our tax payers money keeps her.

If there was a war on, i wouldn't fight for my country, nor my government. I would fight for me, my family and my friends. And even then i'd only join up if i was conscripted.

I know all my countries down sides. But what i say on here is ignored. My media may be biased but there is some truth in what they say. They can't give false iformation or we can sue them and get thousands of pounds.

Also we aren't the ones sending weapons to Zimbabwe at a time were sending weapons would cause a bloody civil war worse then in kenya's political problem.

Don't pull up on what i say and turn the conversation. I know what my country has done. They have done many attrocities but in this day and age they don't happen. We had a few rogues harming prisoners a few years ago and they were condemed for it. But my kinsmen have fought and fought for nothing. They fight because there ordered to fight a militia force of the taliban.

You know the taliban that group that has no human rigts for women. The ones still wanting to live in the middle ages.

So i'm going to get my stool and stand up against such tripe from a man who has no decent morality and describe his own countries bad points.