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    <title>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</title>
    <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/list.html?q=70</link>
    <description><![CDATA[Informations and discussion about 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.]]></description>
    <language>EN</language>
    <pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:21:20 -0400</pubDate>
    <lastBuildDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:21:20 -0400</lastBuildDate>
    <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C33362%23msg-33362</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Look, the whole freedom of speech thing and helping run your own government by voting i thought would be very important to have a fair nation. Throughout our history in europe being under dictatorship and lords hasn't turned out best for us. In England during the industrial revoloution we lords and business owners were hrash and cruel. They paid bad wages and to put england in focus 100 years ago we were a thrid world nation. Even with an empire people lived in housing that had refuse running through there houses, for a lrge majority of history around the american and french revolutions people couldn't gather together. When they did in manchester there was a slaughter. It was called peterloo. Horse man sliced into large crowds lsitening to speakers. Women and children included. I can go on and say more about our history when we didn't have tye vote and when we weren't cared about. As soon as we had freedom of speach and the vote things improved. In france they improved and in spain and so on. 

From history it seems that a lack of freedom of speech and a no vote to help run government was bad. But hopefully its changed. I haven't been to china but from what i have heard some leaders from opposition parties to the communist government were sent to prison for metal reason without trial. I know we can't speak with the crappy terrorist act in play but i think that is wrong.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C33362%23msg-33362</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:21:20 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32580%23msg-32580</link>
      <author>Rusty</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Interesting reading on this forum. First of all it seems like some people have said some bad things about Americans. That's not surprizing since our president is a jack ass and has given us a bad name because of his decisions. 
I for one I'm glad that people protested the Olympic torch relay. China decided to use it as propaganda and it seem like it backfired on them. They are finding out the hard way that they cannot brainwash people around the world like they do with their own people.
On another note if China is so great like some people here have suggested then why are so many Chinese leaving China? I've been around the world and it seems like in every country that I have been, there is a Chinese community.
We American sort of look down on Mexico and see it as a third world country. That being said not long ago I was in Tijuana, Mexico (one of the ugliest and worst cities that Mexico has to offer) and guess what? I saw Chinese people walking on the streets! I thought to myself, &quot;wow China has got be a really bad place to live in if the Chinese much rather live in a dump like this&quot;. I mean we have Mexicans risking their lives to come over to the US so that they can have a better future.
By the way I have nothing agains the Chinese people. While I was in Tijuana, Mexico I was sitting down on a back street when I saw two little Chinese kids run by. One of them was a little Chinese girl about two years old perhaps, a bit older. She looked so cute and seemed so happy, she reminded me of my own little daughter. I felt sorry for her and her parents and wondered what hardships they endured back in China that made them decide to immigrate to a place like TJ.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32580%23msg-32580</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 06:37:25 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32328%23msg-32328</link>
      <author>Tj1of1</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I am an American and have always been. I cannot say I have always been proud of everything and everyone that is American. Like all countries we have our good and bad. There are thing about my country that I am deeply proud of and thing which I am ashamed of as well.

If you have never been to China then you should start each sentence with I heard or I read this about China. Then you should remember the old saying that goes something like, “Don't Believe Anything You Hear -- and only Half What You See”

If any of my fellow American will remember this when speaking here or anywhere else then maybe just maybe I want have to be ashamed of you.

I have been to China twice my wife is Chinese. I have heard the Dolly Llama speak, if you cannot say the same you should realize you are a puppet on a string and know only that someone has pulled your string vomiting all you have been told or read.

If I started telling you about how beautiful the northern lights are and how cold it got in Alaska and how to survive the cold you would only thing that was valuable if I had been there. If I told you I read it in a book or saw it on TV my words would not have as much meaning and little real value.

The same is true of anyone that has never been to China and is stupid enough to come here or anywhere else and be arrogant enough to tell the Chinese people what wrong with their country.

Yes we have the right of freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want, but you could get arrested for it even here in America. You do not have the right to yell fire in a crowded building when there is no fire, you cannot talk about killing a member of our government or over throwing our government because you could get arrested. Depends on who hears you and if you are taken serious or if they think you’re a nut. Personaly I think your a nut and I can say that because I am an American and I can be just as stupid and arrogant as you are. Funny how I have more respect for the chinese people than I do you, wonder why?

Yes we have freedom of speech and people prove it every day by voicing their opinion and showing how stupid and arrogant they are. If you never been to China if you do not have any close Chinese friend and you come here and get on a soap box and tell people how it is in china you should be ignored by anyone who comes here.  If you chose to reply to me don’t waste your time. While you can say anything you want I have the freedom to ignore you and I will not waste my time with your words any more. 

If no one speaks to you, you will go away because you will realize your words have no value here and you cannot get the attention you desire.

Did I say I think your vane, aragent and stupid. Have I offende you? Well good. If I offended any one that was Chinese then I apologize that was not my intended desire. The Chinese don't need me to express myself for them but I would like to make it clear that Americans have different thoughts on many things. Most of the time you only hear from the truly arrogent ones. I to busy to put this must time into being stupid.   

TJ]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32328%23msg-32328</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 20:35:11 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32318%23msg-32318</link>
      <author>Smurkledunk</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Tibet wants to be part of the Olympics not Boycott it!]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C32318%23msg-32318</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 15:57:29 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29400%23msg-29400</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[No, but our government cannot get away with as much as the chinese government. The competition between the parties means that to win the vote they must at least acknowledge the peoples complaints. They must come up with ideas to solve these problems and to stay in power they must keep their promises. Sadly Governments don't always but they still try to get the public on there side. Of course i know that many things to do with politics is money. But in our society the public have a small say in how our country is run. Also, as i have said i know my country is not perfect. We did wrong in the past. And to say i'm sorry for something my ancestors did 150 years ago is better then nothing. What are we meant to do take all black people from Africa that were involved in the slave trade and put them back. 

Also in this country our welfare state is at a high standard. Homes for the homeless, benefits for those who do not have work, National health service, and more little things that make life easier for people. Like if i continue my education and do A levels i get £30 each week. You don't hear of these in other countries. My country is not perfect, but i can assure you it is a damn site better then the majority of others. 

Also i don't care about america, i don't care about canada, that is there country with trivial things. They do not suffer such sever human rights issues. Such as the one child policy, and of course the documentary that your government won't listen to, dispatches. Some tibetans show there scars from forced sterilisation without anaesthetics. Why is this not given when you force an operation on someone. No psychological help to the women. Nothing, Nadar. 

What i say is 'Governments should fear there people, not people fearing there governments' is a famous saying. Based round Guy Falkes and such. There is a good film, not about china but a political system, it controls the media etc. It is based in Britain, It is called V for Vendetta. 

Freedom of speech is an unbelievable experience. It is an experience i take for granted, many can't share it and nor can china. China cannot vote for fairer life styles. They cannot vote for there country to get better. What happens when you do not have a good economy, when there is an economical slump. As it is only when your country now owns most of the trade around the world have your lifes got better. Ours got better after our empire after the second world war.

Also the reason we fight along side the americans is because we were in debt. We only paid off our debt last year in 2007 from the second world war. Now that is over we can move away from them. The nation that sucks everyone else dry so they may live happily. 

Look, i like china and all. I actually want to go teach English in china. When i go i want to be able to speak freely. I want to speak of different politics. If you changed just the freedom of speech rule i would believe china to be a descent country. But sadly you haven't. 

If this makes no sense or is a bit odd it is because i'm knackered at the moment and have been doing Graphics coursework.  Please say it doesn't make sense because its not true.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29400%23msg-29400</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:13:38 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29290%23msg-29290</link>
      <author>Manofaction</author>
      <description><![CDATA[And now I read on...in dissapointment...to you next posting on April 29, 2008 08:04AM.  You are so tragically diluted by your own county's propaganda.  You really believe you have a say in what happens and that the country is lead by the &quot;people&quot;.  It's a little bit sad that you don't realize that the world is driven by money, unfortunatley.  And money is driving 80% of politicians.  And human-rights, education, and &quot;decent morality&quot; are taking a back-seat to this greedy monster.  Also, I'm afraid that an objective view as to what you are being taught in school is not possible until you are out of school.  Anyway, wish you all the luck in the future.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29290%23msg-29290</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:46:31 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29287%23msg-29287</link>
      <author>Manofaction</author>
      <description><![CDATA[*tripe from a man who has no decent morality*

Morality
1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.  

Decent
1. conforming to the recognized standard of propriety, good taste, modesty, etc., as in behavior or speech.  

You are calling me a man lacking any &quot;decent morality&quot; on the basis that I describe my own country's bad points?  

Don't argue, that's exactly what your sentence says, without fiddling with interpretations.  

  I already stated that what China is doing is bad, ugly and other negative adjectives.  It shouldn't be able to happen in this world, but it is.  Have you heard of &quot;Blackwater&quot;?  The mercinary group hired by the US to get around following international law?  And don't pretend like Britain isn't funding that.  Or do you think it's ok for us to do that in the middle east where they are all &quot;barbaric fanatics&quot; anyway and deserve to be tortured, but not okay in China, where they are all &quot;peaceful monks&quot; and innocent victims of a dictatorship.  
   And you're telling me that a true democracy still exists in America.  Then why does it take a campain budget of at least over $80million/year(USD) to win an election?  And if you ask most american's why they are voting for the candidates they choose, most of them have no idea about the political stance of any candidate.
   Don't misunderstand me, I'm not praising China for the atrocities it has and is still committing against its people.  I'm just saying the world is being extremely hypocritical to attack China for something they all (some more than others) practice.  You can't say that what China is doing is worse than what America is doing in other countries.  Unless you believe that anyone possessing any sort of decent morality would not judge the actions outside of ones own country.
   Also, should America give back Puerto Rico and Guam, or other territories?  How about Hawaii?  Well, you may say that they still want to be part of the US.  Then how about Hong Kong?  They didn't want to separate from Britain either, but you guys let them go didn't you?  Quebec comes far from wanting to be part of Canada, but Canada doesn't want them to secede. Why, because it is to the profit and benifit of Canada to keep Quebec part of its country.
   As far as Britain apologizing for slavery, sure they did:
[i]BBC Sunday, 25 March 2007  Tony Blair expressed &quot;deep sorrow&quot; for the slave trade, saying: &quot;We are sorry.&quot;[/i]
Goodness, sorry, that really was a heartfelt apology, I was wrong.
   And if you think there is no false news in Britain, think again http://www.rense.com/general44/50.htm
   Anyway, once again, I'm not calling the world to turn a blind eye to what the PRC is doing, I'm asking to take a non-biased approach to addressing your own country's problems and acts of injustice.  If everyone did that, including China, we'd have a lot fewer problems.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29287%23msg-29287</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:54:59 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29259%23msg-29259</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[no actually my opinions have changed and it seems like you don't even bother reading my replys to your replies. I think you have no real opinion of you rown as all you have done is blurted out nothing of consequence. It is 'i love my nation, china is best, everbody is jealous of the chinese.' But you won't change your views what so ever.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29259%23msg-29259</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:17:08 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29163%23msg-29163</link>
      <author>Irenechen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Tiber
I don't want to talk to you any more. You are too sticking your own opinion!Whatever you said. I am proud of my country and proud of being a Chinese!]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29163%23msg-29163</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:46:33 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29152%23msg-29152</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[You say these things, but could i go to your government and say they were crap. Yes or no? Because you could here.

I do not argue that china hasn't improved what so ever. But china is still breaking human rights laws in some provinces and colonies. And the one child law  is a complete breach of human rights. Your not meant to be able to do that.

You also can't guide your government, they guide you. It is meant to be the other way around. It is these things that i argue against. The fact that although life may be getting better, you still don't have a say in how your government is run. I would like to see a china where the people are in control. Where there is news by the people not the government and so on.

I have no disagreement with  the olympics in china. The reason people are protesting now is because china must listen to them. And it is harming chinas pride and reputation by not doing so and making up that it is to stop the olympics. The olympics are just sport nothing else. The protesting is just using the publicity of the olympics. It doesn't mean they want to destroy it.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29152%23msg-29152</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:04:49 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29129%23msg-29129</link>
      <author>Irenechen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Tiber
Let me tell you the last time.
I am very happy to be a Chinese citizen. I am a happiness girl in my whole life. I never want to be an english or an American. Really!!! I am happy that I am a Chinese. I am very lucky. Whatever you said on this forum, none one of Chinese people will agree with you. And you are also too rude here. Just relax and use your good english words to argue with people, but the most important thing for you is that you really need to come to China and see it. I believe you would make a lot of good Chinese friends here. Don't angry with people disagree with you! Because you are argueing with Chinese people. You are protecting your country, we are protecting our country. That's true. But we have a common point that we love our own country and hope the world could peace. China in your mind is a 1940s-1970s China but not a 2000s China. I not angry with you about what you were saying here any more. Because we just protect our own country. That's a truth. Chinese people have all of the human rights and very free. I am growing very happy, healthy, and got a good education. So I am working right now. And I have a good job in China. Beijing Olympics doesn't have any relationship with politics or human rights,especilly Tibet but sports. But if you want to put them in it, then that's your problem. I don't know how to say anything to you!]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29129%23msg-29129</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:56:47 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29114%23msg-29114</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[O, by the way. Good luck with the olympics, but better luck with human rights and freedom of speech.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29114%23msg-29114</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:52:08 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29113%23msg-29113</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Have you heard the song amasing grace. It is about redemption and the forgiveness of a slave traders sins. He became a monk later on and lived with his guilt for the rest of his life.

Imperialist Britain was still a democracy, even if it was a democracy for the land owners. I did not say slavery was a god sent. I said it was a mistake, it was bad, but to get some dignity back from taht situation we were the first to rid ourselves of devils work. To this day we still say how sorry we are publically to the black communities in America, Britain and Africa.

What is funny is, in Iraq and Afganistan, we were against the wars. I personally want to pull out and let all those barbaric fanatics kill themselves in the name of Allah. That way none of my people need to die in foreign lands. Being shoot at by cowards who hide in crowds and bomb civilians. Now i know that we are in Iraq for the american oil companies and we are in afganistan for the oil pipe lines to run through. It is a disgrace. We have people sitting outside parliament protesting. 

I don't see people outside the chinese government protesting. O you can't otherwise you'll get executed for treason. Don't tell me i'm brainwashed at school. I am taught english, maths, science, Religious studies, Graphics... and so on. But no where in that do i have to join a communist youth party. No where do i pledge allegance to some crappy queen who sits on her thrown while our tax payers money keeps her. 

If there was a war on, i wouldn't fight for my country, nor my government. I would fight for me, my family and my friends. And even then i'd only join up if i was conscripted. 

I know all my countries down sides. But what i say on here is ignored. My media may be biased but there is some truth in what they say. They can't give false iformation or we can sue them and get thousands of pounds. 

Also we aren't the ones sending weapons to Zimbabwe at a time were sending weapons would cause a bloody civil war worse then in kenya's political problem. 

Don't pull up on what i say and turn the conversation. I know what my country has done. They have done many attrocities but in this day and age they don't happen. We had a few rogues harming prisoners a few years ago and they were condemed for it. But my kinsmen have fought and fought for nothing. They fight because there ordered to fight a militia force of the taliban.

You know the taliban that group that has no human rigts for women. The ones still wanting to live in the middle ages.

So i'm going to get my stool and stand up against such tripe from a man who has no decent morality and describe his own countries bad points.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29113%23msg-29113</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:49:17 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29102%23msg-29102</link>
      <author>Manofaction</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Ok, your sixteen.  That makes sense.  All high school is for is indoctinating citezens to be good consumers and obediant country-men.  Why don't you wait until you are a little older to be so opinionated.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29102%23msg-29102</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:21:58 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29101%23msg-29101</link>
      <author>Manofaction</author>
      <description><![CDATA[How can we take on views that are self-contradictory, personally and provincially biased, and that are based mostly on untrue premises.
  You stated the argument that the colonization and enslavement of Africans is justified by the creation of the song &quot;amazing grace&quot;.  And that Enland shouldn't be held responsible for that because it was &quot;one of&quot; the first countries to end slavery.  Every country does whatever they can in the name of progress and economic growth.  Then once that is achieved they condemn other countries for taking those same steps.  If England could go back in time they wouldn't have done anything differently.  Oh, maybe they would have accomplished their imperalist goals faster, since they could learn from their errors before.
   Don't condemn China when you are blind to your own county's problems]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29101%23msg-29101</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:20:20 -0400</pubDate>
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      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29100%23msg-29100</link>
      <author>Manofaction</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Tiber Stated:
One there is a difference. England no longer has an empire and we have paid for what we did...... I'm not sure where you got the killing all the way bit because it was not killing that got us our empire.The East Indian Trading company was the one that invaded India. But there invasion was slow a subtle...... Africa was a sad misfortune as that is what funded our empire and the first industrial revolution. The black slaves [b]but we were the first to stop black slavery.[/b] And from the slavery came the song 'Amasing Grace'. I am not being hypocritical as we've sorted our problems, you haven't as china still owns tibet. 

   Are you really saying that because we got the song &quot;amazing grace&quot; from slavery that it was good to have slavery?  That is very ridiculous.  And obviously the English are just as &quot;brainwashed&quot; as the Chinese if you think that killing wasn't a big part of your imperalism.  When was Hong Kong given back?  What are you doing with America in Iraq right now?!!  Please, I'm so tired of Americans and Europeans getting on their high horse about what China is doing.  Yes, what China is doing is wrong, but necessary for maintaining their current level of control.  They staged protests in Tibet as an excuse to extinguish protests and upheavals.  Like fire-fighters start small controlled burns in the forest to prevent huge fire-storms.
    This is not a pretty fact, but it was necessary.  And it's not right, but America and yes, even England are perpetrators of just as haenous acts. So get off your high-horse, enjoy the olympics, (that would never be protested in America, no matter how terrible we are) and relax a little]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29100%23msg-29100</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:14:38 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29088%23msg-29088</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Look, i know i'm from england. But the reason china thinks it can invade tibet is because of a dynasty that ruled china and tibet. Though that dynasty was mongolian. It is not a Han chinese dynasty. To be honest England should still own northern france after William the conquerer invaded. We don't have it though. We dont go and invade it. 

The reason for the protests is because the olympics if protested about will affect the chinese government. It will be noticed by the chinese. When else would the chinese notice it. They most certainly wouldn't have put the protests on TV. But people want to see the torch so they had to show the protesting.

What i would wish from you on this forum is a bit of co-operation. I know my media is bias and will show the tibetan side. I also know that your government will show the chinese side and propoganda. I have looked at news from Aljazeera, an arabic news broadcaster and from indian journalists. I have watched dispatches, i have watched a programme called chinese school. The communist party is in your education system. You have the communist youth party, promoting your government. Though the programme only shows the intense education system. 

I'm sorry if people disagree with me. Especially on a chinese forum. But what is the point of trying to get your point across to people who have the same views. I take on your points. Please take on mine.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29088%23msg-29088</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:36:43 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29060%23msg-29060</link>
      <author>Joshua.Yip</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I think taht Tibet has nothing t do with the Olympics and that that jib-jabbering between Irene and Tiber has just got to stop because you know what Tibet is a seperate issue. Human Rights Activists are just taking this opportunity to take it out on the Olympics. China and Tibet are both 1 country and should work together for the better and for the Olympics.

CHINA ROCKS]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C29060%23msg-29060</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:34:51 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28956%23msg-28956</link>
      <author>Irenechen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi Tiber,
Whatever you said, I just still stand by my country side. You are not a fair person but I think you just be a 16 young kid to say this. So you are not gonna convince me.
You will know China better one day and not just argue with me here.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28956%23msg-28956</guid>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:00:14 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28934%23msg-28934</link>
      <author>Danishdynamite</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Could someone Chinese here please explain the Chinese version of the Chinese invasion of Tibet? What, in your view, led to this?]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28934%23msg-28934</guid>
      <pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:58:16 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28706%23msg-28706</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[To be honest Irenechen, i must be blunt and say that you are speaking out of your own arsehole. One thing is in Britain we [i]hate[/i] the Americans but we are in there debt so we went to war with them in Iraq and Afganistan. They paid us money after the second world war. Our country after five and a half years had been bombed, our cargo ships destroyed, our people fighting still. You know of your suffering under the japanese but our suffering by bombings on cities and factories. We ran out of money and needed money the americans gave it to us. 

We as a people are have many chinese communities, we are not against China hosting the Olympics but we don't like bad press around it of human rights. China is already breaking a rule by only having one child per couple. 

Did you also know that your country was trying to give arms to Mugabe. If that weaponry got through there would have been a bloody civil war. What is your country doing? There is no advantage to the Chinese. That was one of Englands old colonies and we shall deal with that very serious issue, that your government was about to abuse.

Your government is running your media, there hardly going to say bad things about themselves now. We don't care if China is growing, we want the Chinese people to have better lives.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28706%23msg-28706</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:57:07 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28635%23msg-28635</link>
      <author>Irenechen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I get nothing to say to you. Tiber. I just think you are too young to say China. You said all of those things as a westerner then I think your mind about China are ridiculous.
I know how good and bad western country is. I don't need you to tell me. 
I know why all of western countries want to break olympic 2008 in Beijing, because China is developing very fast and appreciation of the RMB while the USD is going down. And most of western countries are controlled by US, especially your country---UK. So most of western countries are breaking Beijing olympics and protect Tibet. Because they want to see China going down. You, as a young man in your country, I am for sure you stand the side of your country. Right? Because what you do here just like those ridiculous westerners who are breaking Beijing olympics. 
Don't think about that you seem like good and fair man. I know those people who are caring about Free Tibet very well. They just want to break down China. I think you too. Now I know how bad of westerners to China.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28635%23msg-28635</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:25:02 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28571%23msg-28571</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[well they seem to class us all as westerners. Then our medias wrong, we are causing a genocide in Iraq, this is the government sending arms to mugabe. I'm sorry but lately i've been having a complete blast in anger at wrongful politics. In our own country also. The government is not recognising the inflation and therefore not increasing the wages of civil servants. Then i came on here and i get told all this crap that our media makes up lies, that we are the ones who do not know freedom. It turns out i'm brainwashed by my media. Apart from me hating the way i get my media, in the presentation of it and the fact that i am against our government in many matters and the media but you know, i'm a westerner. I don't know anything about the world what so ever and am unable to share what i believe to be a just comments.

I then to put the icing on the cake get told that my country is intolerant by a country thats government fears people speaking freely. And the last point that you commented on just happens to be rather true if it is mean and spiteful. All i see in chinese politics is control, control over people, control over eduction, control over media, control over thought. 

I watched a documentary on the chinese eduction system. It is facinating but they have to do army training, they have to join the chinese communist youth party. Which to me sounds like Hitlers Youth. I know not exactly but the points why hitlers youth was set up seems to be the main objective of the chinese. To control the young, the ones who's minds are not corrupted.

Thanks for letting me get things off my chest, i do realise i shall be getting a few comments against me on a chinese forum but to be honest i am willing to listen, take on there points and fight those that seem riduculous.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28571%23msg-28571</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:56:07 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28548%23msg-28548</link>
      <author>Joshua.Yip</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Lets not go into discriminating the chinese or any other race. Besides the Olympics have nothing to do with race or nationality]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28548%23msg-28548</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:23:45 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28499%23msg-28499</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[You're not getting what i am saying and you have no open mindness to even listen to my point of view. 

This points of topic i was just wondering:
But one thing i'd like to say is about the tolerance thing. How many scottish, welsh, irish, and English people live where you are. Because i live in a small town of 20'000 people. Yet we must have 100 chinese, 200 indian of some description, and a few black people. Let alone london which has a whole section that makes up a town of chinese. Could you please tell me why people flock to our country and not to china? There must be a reason, because even if i go to china i wouldn't like to stay. I agree it is an amasing country but there are many bad points to go with it.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28499%23msg-28499</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:13:53 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28459%23msg-28459</link>
      <author>Doszhu</author>
      <description><![CDATA[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhDll880Y4
[size=large]visit China with an open mind[/size]]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28459%23msg-28459</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:34:00 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28418%23msg-28418</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Also Yarik, politics is in everything. Everything that governs our lives is due to politics. You near enough can't not talk about politics. And Irenechen i'm sorry you cannot see from another person view, as although i say these things i have found that my media is bias, i agree on that but i opened my mind and see from both sides of the arguement. Our media is bias, but your country has a government run media that will show what they want you to see. 

I also disagree with chinese people having no vote for a leader. And no true freedom of speech. I wouldn't be able to live in such a society, although i do wish to teach English in china, it looks like an amasing place and it common people are hardy who get on with work no matter what. But only while im in my twenties after i'd come back to England or America to teach chemistry.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28418%23msg-28418</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:24:22 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28417%23msg-28417</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[O sorry i was looking at the first page not the second.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28417%23msg-28417</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:17:08 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28416%23msg-28416</link>
      <author>Tiber</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Look this is not &quot;western&quot; view of tibet. It comes from an indian man. Tibetans get into universitites easier then chinese as they are using a second language. If you were competing to get into a german college would you like being judged on your German. Also the population of tibet is different to that of the chinese. It is not as big as that of the chinese. There population has fallen from 6'000'000 to 5'000'000 world wide. Also it is against human rights to have that policy, but forcing it on a colony is a crime. I do say colony as it has its own culture and religion. It also feels as if the migrants are taking there jobs with chinese shops, which are more modern. The tibetans don't have the money to compete by foreign competition and are becoming poor because of it. Although the economy has risen, it is not the tibetans benefitting. 

Our United Kingdom is actually made of seperate countries. Scotland is run by its own laws but they benefit from our influences and our trade. And vice versa. Wales has also got it's own government but is too small to seperate and the northern ireland issue is a mess between religions so there is no need to interferr at this moment when there is peace.

I know i cannot formulate a complete picture but i believe although my news is bias it is not allowed to create stories. It is not allowed. Like china should not be sending weapons to Mugabe. What a recklass thing when the people may be able to vote and help run their own country.

Also the tibetans would differ on that view of it being apart of china. To be honest i think that is just an excuse and a piece of propoganda. If china has been apart of tibet for so long, how comes you had to send troops and tanks to it in 1951. How comes we know it as an invasion. Wait no let me guess we are the evil westerners who make up nasty lies about a country known to have a problem with there human rights. 

I know your country is improving with your economic wealth but i still see you as a one party state. A communist run party state, where its people are controlled by media, blocks on the internet to youtube sometimes and has to have a google explorer made for it. A country where the people do not control the government but the government controls them. And do not say come over here because i can't. I need to got to college and to university before i even think of travelling. Also i invite you to Europe. I invite you to see our news, watch not just BBC. Which i see to just be soppy and a bit bias but does not lie. Channel four a respectable channel. You complain about our media but you no nothing else but a controlled media and a controlling government. You can come here and say our country is crap and you would still recieve benefits. If i said the communist party was crap, i think i'd be in prison or it may be seen a treason and a nice death to follow.

You must see where i'm coming from.]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28416%23msg-28416</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:15:44 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Olympic Torch and protestors</title>
      <link>http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28382%23msg-28382</link>
      <author>Yarik</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I think we need stop to talk about politic. We nothing change only swearing and stupid dispute. Better be friends (:P)(tu)]]></description>
      <category>Beijing 2008 - Olympic Games</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum/read.html?q=70%2C26066%2C28382%23msg-28382</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:07:52 -0400</pubDate>
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